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Jan 25, 2021 16:45:15 GMT
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I confused myself there. I meant Series 3 XJ, but it's a fair point and I have an old Land Rover too so why not do ALL the M57 swaps?! Looking forward to the updates. Haha M57-swap all the things! Wasn't the 5-speed in S3 XJ6s an LT77? If the dimensions add up you could have M57->adapter->Landy gearbox (LT77 or R380)->2WD tailhousing->Jag prop. Plenty of Jag diff ratios to play about with to get the revs right as well. Early 184bhp M57s are a bit easier to swap from an electrics perspective as well. The power ceiling's not as high, but that probably helps when trying to keep an LT77 or R380 alive behind one. TTV are a great company to deal with Really enjoying this thread - not sure if I've commented before but if I haven't keep on going it's great Thanks man  and yeah, TTV are brilliant. Tons of applications, and from what I hear they're keen to do one-off/development pieces as well. |
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Last Edit: Jan 25, 2021 19:59:24 GMT by biturbo228
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Jan 25, 2021 18:19:30 GMT
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You’ve made that sound temptingly simple (for someone else)!
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Jan 25, 2021 20:49:07 GMT
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Considering the full fat balloon sized ,nay zeppelin sized ,gobs of torque from this sot of engine , i am amazed a lt77 would even consider not shedding its teeth/bearings,when strapped onto the back of one.
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Jan 26, 2021 11:09:31 GMT
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You’ve made that sound temptingly simple (for someone else)! Haha bear in mind I had similar ideas at the start of this project  Still, it could be done much simpler than I'm doing it, and each step is achievable in its own right. Just adding them all up together makes it seem insurmountable! Considering the full fat balloon sized ,nay zeppelin sized ,gobs of torque from this sot of engine , i am amazed a lt77 would even consider not shedding its teeth/bearings,when strapped onto the back of one. True! I think the Defender kits tend to use unmodified 184bhp versions which make about 288lb-ft which is just a smidgeon over the official rating for the R380 (380nm->280lb-ft). I'm not sure what the accepted torque capability of an R380 is, but you're right that even a mild remap on this engine will take it to 220bhp/350lb-ft. Although a clever tuner might be able to control the torque a bit using the VNT on the turbo. But yes, fairly certain it would disintegrate behind the full-fat 600-700lb-ft this thing will probably make! 17th September 2020Some more jiggery pokery with the engine as I wanted to make sure I could fit and remove the wiper mechanicsm without dislodging the intake manifold. Moved it forwards by about half an inch which sorted it.  At this point I'd lucked into having the engine dead central in the car, angled at 6.4deg and clearing all of the major components nicely so I thought I wouldn't tempt fate and try and raise it to take up the squish in the mounts. Just make them while it's central and sort any issues by shimming the mounts with metal plates (which can later be welded to the underside of the mounts themselves). With that, I started making the mounts! They're not the prettiest, but I went for strength and using materials I had to hand over aesthetics. Nearside...   ...and offside:   Also, someone needs to be kicked in the shins for the upper engine mount bolt placement on the LH side. It's hidden way way up behind loads of tightly packed wiring, and exits directly into a plug that's really difficult to remove so you can't get a socket on it nicely. If they'd moved the mount 10mm forward or down, or the plug 10mm up or either side (or even outward) then it would be fine. It's in there somewhere:  I reckon designers should be made to spend a year working on cars every now and again so they experience these sorts of things! |
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Last Edit: Jan 26, 2021 11:36:44 GMT by biturbo228
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Jan 26, 2021 11:23:50 GMT
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I reckon designers should be made to spend a year working on cars every now and again so they experience these sorts of things! Don't know how many times I've said the same thing, but I also include the accountants as well! |
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Jan 26, 2021 11:40:14 GMT
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Don't know how many times I've said the same thing, but I also include the accountants as well! Oh that's a good one too! Yes. They should also be made to drive the cars they sign off for a protracted time so they can live with the compromises they enforce! |
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Jan 26, 2021 11:48:41 GMT
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You could have M57->adapter->Landy gearbox (LT77 or R380)->2WD tailhousing->Jag prop. Here's another option from the Landy world. You can get adapter plates to mate the BMW 6-speed to an LT230 transfer box, which AFAIK has the same bolt pattern and attachments as the RWD R380/LT77 tailshaft. So it could go M57->BMW 6-speed->adapter->R380 tailhousing->Jag prop. Although at that point it's probably less effort to just have a custom prop made and use the BMW 6-speed like I will. Still, if all you want is a punchy yet economical Jag, the R380 should hold up to the 184bhp version ok |
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Jan 26, 2021 19:17:59 GMT
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I reckon designers should be made to spend a year working on cars every now and again so they experience these sorts of things! Don't know how many times I've said the same thing, but I also include the accountants as well! Me too about the engineers (especially the current VAG lot, I’d be kicking above shin level). The accountants though.... just make ‘em walk the plank ! Nick |
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jan 26, 2021 19:37:00 GMT
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Don't know how many times I've said the same thing, but I also include the accountants as well! Me too about the engineers (especially the current VAG lot, I’d be kicking above shin level). The accountants though.... just make ‘em walk the plank ! Nick As someone who dare i own up to being an engineer in the motor industry I'd point out the only time you would ever need to remove the engine mount bracket on the cr it was intended for is when you change the engine and all the other parts in the way would then to come off anyway. |
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Jan 26, 2021 19:40:18 GMT
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there's a pretty good bmw engined landrover page on facebook linky |
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Jan 26, 2021 22:50:45 GMT
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Me too about the engineers (especially the current VAG lot, I’d be kicking above shin level). The accountants though.... just make ‘em walk the plank ! Nick As someone who dare i own up to being an engineer in the motor industry I'd point out the only time you would ever need to remove the engine mount bracket on the cr it was intended for is when you change the engine and all the other parts in the way would then to come off anyway. Well ok.... but I can think of plenty that are harder to justify..... There's the engine mount on a Mk1 TT for example that has to be removed to change the timing belt. It's bad enough that of the three bolts holding it to the engine, one you can see but not touch, one you can touch but not see and the other you can neither touch or see and just have to poke the tool in it's general direction and hope..... but then, having undone it, there isn't actually room to remove it from the work area, so you have to continually juggle the wretched thing while changing the belt etc. The oil filter is horribly inaccessible too, and that's after the 16 fasteners holding the undertray on..... Then there is that satanic double pinch bolt found on the front vertical links of D2 A8s, B6 A4s (and many others), holding the top two ball joints. I mean, M8 x 80mm steel bolt through an alloy component, with two slots in the track of the hole pointing at the wheel to make sure salty water gets sprayed in.... what could possibly go wrong? Or, changing marques, LR TDV6 glow plugs....? Nick |
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,976
Club RR Member Number: 71
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As someone who dare i own up to being an engineer in the motor industry I'd point out the only time you would ever need to remove the engine mount bracket on the cr it was intended for is when you change the engine and all the other parts in the way would then to come off anyway. Well ok.... but I can think of plenty that are harder to justify..... There's the engine mount on a Mk1 TT for example that has to be removed to change the timing belt. It's bad enough that of the three bolts holding it to the engine, one you can see but not touch, one you can touch but not see and the other you can neither touch or see and just have to poke the tool in it's general direction and hope..... but then, having undone it, there isn't actually room to remove it from the work area, so you have to continually juggle the wretched thing while changing the belt etc. The oil filter is horribly inaccessible too, and that's after the 16 fasteners holding the undertray on..... Then there is that satanic double pinch bolt found on the front vertical links of D2 A8s, B6 A4s (and many others), holding the top two ball joints. I mean, M8 x 80mm steel bolt through an alloy component, with two slots in the track of the hole pointing at the wheel to make sure salty water gets sprayed in.... what could possibly go wrong? Or, changing marques, LR TDV6 glow plugs....? Nick On the plus side I'm not sure which Jag it was (I thought XJ40) they hung the starter motor in mid air on the production line and built the car around it if it was this car then the BMW heart transplant will at least make the starter replacement easy |
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Jan 27, 2021 11:33:58 GMT
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On the plus side I'm not sure which Jag it was (I thought XJ40) they hung the starter motor in mid air on the production line and built the car around it if it was this car then the BMW heart transplant will at least make the starter replacement easy Can't remember if I changed the starter on this before the engine swap. Not sure I attempted the job! It looks in an ok position on the engine, but seeing as it's out of the car at the moment I can't see all the stuff that's normally around it... there's a pretty good bmw engined landrover page on facebook linkyNeat, will give it a look normally I'm thoroughly skeptical of FB groups (not in a moral way, just that they're catastrophic for information permanance so tend to attract a steady stream of really basic questions and bury the good stuff where you can't find it). Still, there's so much that's on FB groups now it's a little unavoidable. As someone who dare i own up to being an engineer in the motor industry I'd point out the only time you would ever need to remove the engine mount bracket on the cr it was intended for is when you change the engine and all the other parts in the way would then to come off anyway. Yeah I completely understand the logic of it, and in the cut-throat environment of modern car-making I can see how it's difficult to justify the time to engineer stuff to be nice to work on. I suppose it's less a change in approach, more of a gradual reduction in the things parts are intended to be taken off for. Culminating in the current VAG trajectory of 'all parts are only intended to be removed with the engine out of car'. Really it just makes me grateful I don't own any really modern cars (at the moment, my oldest is 1998, and I've never dailied something post-2000). Even with that I tend to modify things to make stuff easier to work on, to work around those 'weel if you're doing X job then surely you've already done Y). Like with the long bolts in the Jag's rear wishbones on page 1, where you have to drop the subframe slightly to get them out, but if you weld a couple of scallops into the boot floor then everything is disassemblable in the car. Oh, and a similar situation on the X1/9s clutch slave, which thanks to the really long through-bolts for the pedal box isn't removable unless you drop the whole frame. So I flipped the bolts around and drilled some holes in the opposite box section (with a blanking panel) so they could be slid all the way out without dropping the pedal box Suppose that's proof that it's not just a new car thing! The accountants though.... just make ‘em walk the plank ! Said like a fellow driver of Leyland's finest! To be fair, I've met a number of really helpful finance people. People who's approach is 'my job is to make the numbers stack up so you can do whatever it is you're setting out to achieve'. Contrasted with some thoroughly ornery gits who won't let you do anything unless everything stacks up down to the penny before you've even started! It's a culture thing, and I can't imagine the corporate culture within BL finance division was particularly open to risk! |
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2021 11:39:57 GMT by biturbo228
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Jan 27, 2021 12:19:31 GMT
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Next update! 19th October 2020Been a while since an update! Holiday in Poland which was cut short by a day thanks to covid restrictions. Still great though. Did a self-drive tour of Warsaw in a Fiat 126P, and if anyone's wondering where all of the B4 Audi 80s have gone they're all in Poland! Saw a couple of FSO Polonez' as well which was neat. Back to the grindstone though! Sorted the gearbox mount, so now the engine is fully supported within the car  Next up was to rebuild the top of the engine. Starting to look a little less lost in the engine bay now.  Then it was rebuilding the slam panel I'd cut out of the front of the car. It's still unboltable, but the bonnet mounts were very crusty so that needed sorting.   That let me test-fit the intercooler which is a very snug fit indeed! Needed to clearance the cross brace, and sort a path for the hoses, but it's in!  |
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2021 12:21:45 GMT by biturbo228
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Jan 27, 2021 13:37:39 GMT
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Absolutely fantastic progress! Looking forward to the rest of the project for sure!
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Jan 27, 2021 15:41:03 GMT
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Can we just skip to your current progress yet? Great work, looking forward to seeing the finished product.
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Jan 27, 2021 17:57:29 GMT
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Absolutely fantastic progress! Looking forward to the rest of the project for sure! Thanks man! Can we just skip to your current progress yet? Great work, looking forward to seeing the finished product. Haha nearly there  half of it is having a record of what I've done for when I've forgotten later on |
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WOW !! This is mightily impressive! Can't wait for the big day when the engine is started for the first time...
Any ideas what the performance stats will be like???
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Jan 28, 2021 13:26:41 GMT
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WOW !! This is mightily impressive! Can't wait for the big day when the engine is started for the first time... Any ideas what the performance stats will be like??? Me neither! The chap I bought the turbo off had been running 410bhp (not sure if that's at the wheels or at the flywheel). I'll be aiming for 400hp at the flywheel and anything over is a bonus. Not sure on what the torque figure will be as it'll have to be limited to avoid a paddle clutch. It's not the worst thing in the world if I can't, but I'd like it to be as effortless to drive as possible and I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of speed to get that if necessary (not that I think peak power will be affected, mainly the big lump of torque down low won't be as lumpy). Still, there's people putting 600lb-ft through these clutches and seem to be ok. Seems like plenty to me! --------------- The next update is the last that I'd done on the previous blog, so will soon be getting to some new stuff 16th November 2020Fair few next steps to report on I've painted the detachable slam panel so that's now bolted in for the final time.  I've also refurbed the big bracket panel that holds the radiators in place, and clearanced it for the boost pipes.  Next step was to mock up all the boost pipes. Unfortunately my aluminium tube for joining the silicone bends together was delayed, but as a substitute I discovered that small halfords rattlecan lids wrapped in a bit of tape made a nice snug fit in 2.25" tubes.  That let me get everything mocked up in place:    After that I could make some brackets to support the lower end of the intercooler...  ...which meant I could close up the front box section I had to clearance to fit the intercooler.   Sadly that's not the last time the intercooler will be mounted as you have to take it off to adjust the bonnet shut lines, but that should be a pretty rare job so not a major problem. Last thing I've finished is supporting the filter-end of the intake pipe and fitting some jubilees.  Unfortunately I've ordered the wrong size mikalor clamps for the boost pipes so I can't sort them out (although I have now cut the aluminium joiners to size). Turns out fitting the ally pipe swells the silicone by a couple of mm which is enough to put it out of the short range of the mikalor clamps I've bought. Next size up is on its way |
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Last Edit: Jan 28, 2021 13:27:41 GMT by biturbo228
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,976
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Jan 28, 2021 13:38:21 GMT
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Last thing I've finished is supporting the filter-end of the intake pipe and fitting some jubilees. Unfortunately I've ordered the wrong size mikalor clamps for the boost pipes so I can't sort them out (although I have now cut the aluminium joiners to size). Turns out fitting the ally pipe swells the silicone by a couple of mm which is enough to put it out of the short range of the mikalor clamps I've bought. Next size up is on its way Are you not putting a lip on the aluminium joiners??? I'm sure Blown_Imp and teaboy have both made tools out of mole grips or similar to create the ridge which would stop boost pipes detatching retrorides.proboards.com/thread/96138/1986-porsche-911?page=28 |
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and yeah, TTV are brilliant. Tons of applications, and from what I hear they're keen to do one-off/development pieces as well.
half of it is having a record of what I've done for when I've forgotten later on