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I wasn't going to do a thread on this or take a lot of pictures during the restoration, but here it is. I've been after one of these for quite a while but a lack of available stock and other hobbies prevented it. A couple of years ago though I noticed that the prices of these vans was steadily climbing and at that rate they would soon be beyond what I was prepared to pay. I found one in 2020 but lockdown restrictions prevented me viewing and I lost out by the time they lifted. All hyped up at the prospect, funds and space all raring to go when another shows up and closer than the last to boot. Viewing done Bidding done Transport arranged Once paid for and with excitement cooling I realise my enthusiasm maybe misplaced. To describe it as rusty would be slightly misleading as body filler and silicone sealant don't rust. Just to be sure I put two ratchet straps over the pop top and around the entire van for transport and for the first time in a few years it turns some wheels.  |
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Oct 14, 2022 17:03:52 GMT
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I knew the van has sat a while (the seller said a couple of years) and during my "research" phase I had a look on google street view to check out parking etc and found that the van was in exactly the same place and hadn't moved since. These images were from late 2018 so that was at least three years. Parked up due to a suspected snapped clutch cable the seller had even bought a new one and included it in the sale. As I knew it was a full restoration it was kind of irrelevant. I should say that the seller was entirely honest and very accommodating when I viewed and collected, even telling me that "whenever a hole appeared i'd fill it with what I had and paint over it". The good thing is that these days you can find a place to get paint mixed to whatever shade of purple you like, the bad thing is that if that place is B&Q is going to be emulsion. Pics from street view   |
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Oct 14, 2022 18:53:58 GMT
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Once home I started to have a good look and draw up a list of what needed doing. I then stopped doing that as it was really depressing. I'd assumed it would be a full restoration and factored on everything needing attention. Depite this I still way underestimated this little vans problems.    There are plates over plates over plates in places. One of those cross members is a staggering 3/4 inches thicker than it should be. I gave up looking underneath and decided to look at the roof and gutters. One side of the van still had its original guttering so it looked promising. The seller never used it as a camper (took full advantage of its Mot exempt status mind) so the roof hadn't been raised in nearly a decade. I soon found my ratchet straps were far more structural than intended.    A couple of test cuts revealed that the entire top ring of the van had been "repaired" at one time or another and the whole roof skin, poptop incuded were ready to lift free at any given moment. Had I known this I might not have followed it home so closely. So the top six inches and bottom six inches are shot, but apart from that its a good van. At this point I had a decision to make. On one hand it really was the most rotten thing i've ever seen outside of a scrap yard. Behind every repair lay several inches of further repair work. I'm not even convinced it's the shape it's supposed to be. On the other hand its a rare model of a rare van.  I'm always the first to say nothing is beyond repair but even I'm questioning this one. |
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Oct 14, 2022 18:59:24 GMT
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That is pretty bad...
I hope you decide to save it though.
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Oct 14, 2022 19:50:49 GMT
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That's... a lot of work! But it's going to be supercool when it's done, especially as it's an early one. Looking forward to reading further developments!
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Oct 15, 2022 18:30:04 GMT
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I decided to have a thorough investigation to see just how far i'd need to go. In the back of my mind I'd already begun to price its value in parts just in case. I started by trying to get it running, the seller assured me it ran well when parked up but had only spun on the starter for a couple of years. Good news for once, after checking the plugs and dropping some oil in the bores it only took a jump start to fire it up. Bad news, the tailgate fell off whilst it was running. I did however have a running project. I figured I'd get under it and strip some underseal   I did however find a part in mint condition, this wheel weight looks rust free  As the tailgate seemed to be in need of more urgent attention (the van was stored outside at this point) I started to dig around the frame and support pillars. The spot welds were showing through the paint very prominently (must have been cold) so I drilled some out. Turns out the factory welding isn't much better than the repairs.   As you can see an entire row of sot welds either parted company a long time ago, or they never actually held from new. I was genuinely ready to throw in the towel, there were several people on facebook looking for engines and brake parts etc I reckoned i could get most of my money back parting it it out. In recent years i've done a lot of other hobbies, all of which required ebay purchases collected in person. A result of that is my ebay settings were for uk only sellers. So I changed this to international and began researching sold 850t spares. Then two pieces of serendipitous magic happened, first I discovered a plethora of 850t spares in italy. Mostly new old stock genuine fiat panels, mid sills, front sills, front arches and lower rear corners. You can even buy entire van sides and front panels. This got me thinking. Secondly I remembered that i'm not a millennial and I am actually capable of doing things without stropping until a grown up does it for me. Should this van be saved? Absolutely Can it be saved? Jurys still out, but we're going to give it a damn good go. These are from the for sale listing, looking back not only had I viewed these, I also looked at the van before bidding. The signs were all there really, i'm just glad there wasn't a Nigerian prince in the vicinity when i paid.  |
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Oct 15, 2022 18:46:06 GMT
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Nice! That wheel weight is mint...  |
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Oct 15, 2022 18:49:29 GMT
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My parents had one of these back in the late 90s. It seamed in quite tidy condition though it could have been full of filler. It had a surprising amount of room inside when the top was up but it may have had a full length pop top but I can’t really remember.
Looking forward to the weldathon. Are the panels reasonably priced?
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Oct 15, 2022 18:56:55 GMT
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Please save it - it was mine in the late 1990's, I always wondered what happened to it. It was fairly rusty around the gutters then, but I never did any welding to it. I did replace a piston and a few valves from memory (903cc engine as used in fiat Unos, but rotated the other way, so pistons were available). The conversion is a 'Fargo' ( we called it Margo the Fargo), the original bed would stick out the rear hatch, with a clip on canvas cover. Hence the wood next to the boot hatch. I owned it pre digital cameras, so next time I'm in the loft I'll did out some photos to bore you with, in the meantime Here it is after I sold it (not me in the pic)  And some marketing ( slightly later one, hence the roof is a better design, but the rest is the same)    |
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Oct 15, 2022 19:13:04 GMT
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though it was still around...  |
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Oct 15, 2022 20:06:15 GMT
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My neighbours had an absolute minter one of these - always garaged. Early chrome bumper version too. She told me people had tried to buy it and I warned her not to get ripped off and sell it cheap.
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Oct 15, 2022 20:49:27 GMT
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My neighbours had an absolute minter one of these - always garaged. Early chrome bumper version too. She told me people had tried to buy it and I warned her not to get ripped off and sell it cheap. These things vary in price so much depending on condition, though they're generally over priced rather than under. |
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Oct 15, 2022 20:55:04 GMT
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Please save it - it was mine in the late 1990's, I always wondered what happened to it. It was fairly rusty around the gutters then, but I never did any welding to it. I did replace a piston and a few valves from memory (903cc engine as used in fiat Unos, but rotated the other way, so pistons were available). The conversion is a 'Fargo' ( we called it Margo the Fargo), the original bed would stick out the rear hatch, with a clip on canvas cover. Hence the wood next to the boot hatch. I owned it pre digital cameras, so next time I'm in the loft I'll did out some photos to bore you with, in the meantime Here it is after I sold it (not me in the pic) And some marketing ( slightly later one, hence the roof is a better design, but the rest is the same) Thats amazing to hear, any history or pics would be appreciated. I'm trying to repair it and am several months ahead of this thread but I still have moments of doubt. We've taken to calling it Dolly due to the amount of time it's spent rolling around on some dollys. Though it's proving very apt given the amount of time, effort and money it's going to take to get it looking good again. |
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Last Edit: Oct 16, 2022 8:51:33 GMT by horrido
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My parents had one of these back in the late 90s. It seamed in quite tidy condition though it could have been full of filler. It had a surprising amount of room inside when the top was up but it may have had a full length pop top but I can’t really remember. Looking forward to the weldathon. Are the panels reasonably priced? Depends on what you call reasonable. I ordered all four sills, front arches and rear corners from Italy. Some had customs charges, some had Vat on. Total for all to my door was just over £500. I figured they were worth it given that those panels on the van have been chopped and changed so much that having original panels would at least give me something to work with. |
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Could you imagine the postage on that! Fortunately thanks to the pop top there isn't a lot of roof panel. Gutters and roofs are known rot spots on these vans, especially the campers so even from sunnier climes i'm not sure there'll be many good ones araound. |
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Oct 16, 2022 10:46:22 GMT
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Could you imagine the postage on that! I can imagine the hours trying to fix your roof. Try Shipley? You may be able to get it there for less than you think. But yeah, you wouldn't want to be importing a rotten one, that's for sure. |
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Oct 16, 2022 18:54:22 GMT
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It's probably worth pointing out that this thread is lagging behind the van somewhat. As I said at the start my intention was to get my head down and push on with this, no thread, no pictures, no fuss. I hadn't realised just how few pictures i'd taken though so I'll fast forward through that part. I started at the back, across the tailgate aperture and quickly realised that none of the folders and benders I had access to would fold the panel needed. There are simply too many folds too close together. I ended up having to buy a brake. I figured that over the whole project it would get a lot of use and they bring good money second hand. I was now committed. The rusty gutters turned out to be the least of its problems. The structural box section that runs behind it was completely missing all along the drivers side. The top three inches of the side panels were shot, as was the first three inches of roof. I decided to make the rear corners and work forwards to the dreaded screen frame. I have access to a 4 foot guillotine and folder so once I'd worked out the dimensions I made up a new frame incorporating the gutter and chopped out a four foot section. I had to repair the tops of the b post and c post to sit the new section on. Between missing metal and bad repairs there was virtually nothing to use as a guide. Here is a section of gutter and roof cut out, previous repairs had been tacked on and then filled from the outside.  The insides of the pillars are heavily pitted for a good few inches and the tops are non existent.  L  Lots of weld in bracing, careful measuring and squinting before each section is welded in. The poptop is on the roof so I just have to hope it still fits.  I decided to just replace the whole roof sides rather than endure ten foot of butt welding very thin steel.  I had now done both sides and the rear roof edge. I had planned to continue in this fashion but once I realised the front roof section was completely adrift I decided to temporarily remove it entirely. The next bit is the front roof and screen frame. This is some of the metal cut out so far  |
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Oct 22, 2022 18:43:51 GMT
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At this stage I was mostly round the top of the van and feeling pretty optimistic about the whole project. First I needed to get a proper look at just what was going on above the screen. I knew it was missing a length of gutter right scross the front but couldn't seem to figure out what had been done. A cross section revealed it had simply been cut off and hammered flat then been given a thorough dose of filler.  They'd even managed to bodge over the screen rubber. This picture is of the van in 2005 and you can see the front gutter is missing then  Over the years these roof repairs have been the scource of a lot of the vans current problems as they've been funneling water through the inside of the structure but behind and interior fittings. I had been hoping the screen frame would be intact but again I was to be disappointed  Here you can see whats left of it though it's no longer attached. I knew i'd have to do the corners but hadn't bargained on the whole top edge.  I tried as much as possible to make panels up using either the old panel or the remains of the panel behind though that hasn't always been possible. Sometimes you just have to accept that some jobs may need doing twice. |
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Oct 22, 2022 19:03:57 GMT
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Even the inside screen lip was gone and had to be remade I've never done a screen surround before, previous projects have either been good or been convertibles. I spent hours watching YouTube videos and settled on fitzee's method of welding it up in small easy to shape sections  And then for the first time in what could well be 20 years it had a front rain gutter  Fortunately with this being a pop top it has a heavy frame in the roof that was braced before I started cutting. This should ensure I haven't strayed too far from its original shape. I used the rivet holes to replace the front roof section several time whilst doing this. I wasn't able to make perfect recreations of these panels so i had to err on the side of strength when deviating from to original. After revelling in my success of finally completing the top ring I turned my attention to the front roof panel. After dismissing all nonsense of panoramic glass and tilt sunroofs I got to work. The sides were pretty bad having been repeatedly repaired badly, they needed a good few inches. The front however only needed the lip and a short section of roof. The corners were the biggest headache but having already done the rear didn't take as long    And the whole skin tacked together and in place  There had been a lot of cutting and welding at this point and i thought it best at to double check the fit of the pop top. That meant waiting for a dry day and getting it down from the garage roof. Did it fit? Place your bets. |
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