|
|
|
|
|
I said awhile back that the ACE were liaising to clarify some of the rules of the 8 points system. We've got to the bottom of what is and isn't allowed on the modified chassis / monococque . www.the-ace.org.uk/Chassis-and-Monocoque-Modification.htmlSubscribers to the ACE list will be getting a newsletter shortly www.the-ace.org.uk/subscribe-to-the-ace-newsletter.htmlPlease spread the information to any other forums you visit and get then to subscribe as we will be working to clarify other sections.It's a slow job with it taking the best part of 6 months liason to get this first section completed. |
| |
|
|
|
|
kevfromwales
Posted a lot
the conrod's REALLY out the block now!
Posts: 3,909
|
|
|
|
|
cheers kev - nice work with the clarification
- and, unsurprisingly, pm coming!
- kev
|
| |
Almost on the road: b11 sunny breadvan, e36 tds, 325i skidcar,
nearly there: ford f250 tathauler, suzuki alto, u11 bluey
not for a while: ford pop, 32 rails,
not in this lifetime: ruby, '29 hillman
''unfortanatly I'm quite old and scruffy and in need of some loving. my drive shaft needs a new boot....''
|
|
rodit
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,683
|
|
|
|
|
ust wanted to thank you for all your hard work in making this mine field of a hobby a safer and cosier place to modify ;D
|
| |
Low and slow
Why can't i tune it?
|
|
IDY
Part of things
Posts: 893
|
|
|
|
Very interesting  the definite answer on modifying bulkheads and transmission tunnels is good to know |
| |
I will get round to finishing it at some point
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great work on getting this cleared up!
I do think there should be a case where a "modified monocoque" can be inspected by an engineer for structure, and if it passes retain the 5 points, rather than IVA the whole car.
By this guide, my Lupo could technically have needed an IVA because I rolled and pushed the back arches, and cut the bumper brackets off. The rear 1/4s were double skinned, and structural.
In cases where the bulkhead is cut (weber boxes on minis for example) and where the floor is cut for bigger transmission don't radically change the "identity" of the shell, so IMO should just need inspecting by a qualified engineer and get signed off as safe, and the shell retains it's identity.
The way the rules are now, people will just continue to cut bulkheads and do "hidden" chassis work with no inspection. Which TBH is fine, as you have to cut a hell of a lot out of a shell before it becomes unsafe, but a reasonable inspection fee to make things legit would make people play safer and get it checked.
Doing a full IVA on 1965 mini just to fit weber carbs seems insane to me.
|
| |
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2010 10:12:09 GMT by cobblers
|
|
bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
|
|
|
|
|
Seems a bit harsh though, if you need to 'relieve' a bulkhead or transmission tunnel with a big hammer for an engine/gearbox upgrade that would mean losing the 5 points?
All those old Fords with Zetec/Duratec engine transplants and 5 speed boxes requiring bilkhead and tunnel mods could potentially lose their IDs?
|
| |
1968 Singer Chamois Sport
1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2
1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome
2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily)
2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily)
2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If an already- registered car with a trans tunnel mod is entered for an MOT, will this now be picked up? Or is all of the info IVA-specific?
Cheers,
Matt
|
| |
"Mechanical Power Subduing Animal Speed" (Robert Trevithick, 1808)
'72 BMW 2000 Touring
'99 TT 180 (mrs)
'72 BMW 2500
|
|
`state
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,215
|
|
|
|
|
Would the mot tester know what he was looking at? Seeing as it isent part of the mot itself?
how would you ever be caught out on the road? Say if i modded the trans tunnel in the chevette,and recarpeted it after ect.Would it need to be a vosa check or would plod check?
How many people without the internet will never even realise these changes have come into effect and just carry on unknowingly? If i hadent logged on here today i would of never have known.
Also what about cars that have had mods done in the past? Do these now need the test? And how do they prove when the changes was done to the car?
|
| |
Look at all the plastic people who live without a care.Try to sit with me around my table,but never bring a chair.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry but I see a lot of the same old questions here  . As car modifiers we need to know what we can or can't do before we start messing. I agree that DVLA have not made this information easily accesable and we are talking to them about the consequences of that. There are NO NEW RULES . The DVLA points system has been in place for over 27 years . Yes, it would be nice if an engineer could sign off a modified monococque but he can't and that isn't going to change...way too late for that . The fight to get what we have NOW started in 1976 !!!! The EU are constantly pushing for further restrictions ,if you want to protect your future sign up to ACE , read what we put up, tell everyone you know ,get them to sign up ,and when we need to move as one single body we will be in position to do that. Loads of questions answered on this old thread retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=61576&page=1When are you going to get caught and by whom ? Lots of possibilities , no different to speeding or any other motoring offence. Whether you get caught or not it is still an offence when you do finally get caught and the consequences will be the same. As shown in the link above the consequences are removal of logbook and b ing sent for BIVA test. If you are modifying now, be aware of the rules and plan your build accordingly, either to go through the test or to avoid mods that place you in that position. I hope to post up pictures later next week that will illustrate a retroride passing the test |
| |
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2010 11:07:05 GMT by kapri
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ust wanted to thank you for all your hard work in making this mine field of a hobby a safer and cosier place to modify ;D Thnaks but not just me, there's a group of us spending time doing this . If anyone feels they want to help then contact us and we'll tell you what the job is about . We need someone to help with the website maintenance at the mo. |
| |
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2010 11:10:59 GMT by kapri
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seems a bit harsh though, if you need to 'relieve' a bulkhead or transmission tunnel with a big hammer for an engine/gearbox upgrade that would mean losing the 5 points? All those old Fords with Zetec/Duratec engine transplants and 5 speed boxes requiring bilkhead and tunnel mods could potentially lose their IDs? Yes ! and that's without considering other components swapped out . |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Would the mot tester know what he was looking at? Seeing as it isent part of the mot itself? how would you ever be caught out on the road? Say if I modded the trans tunnel in the chevette,and recarpeted it after ect.Would it need to be a vosa check or would plod check? How many people without the internet will never even realise these changes have come into effect and just carry on unknowingly? If I hadent logged on here today I would of never have known. Also what about cars that have had mods done in the past? Do these now need the test? And how do they prove when the changes was done to the car? Most of your questions are answered in the old thread link. Re cars modified in the past, the onus of proof will be with 'you'. The biggest proof would be the date of engine cc change , provable by sending form V888 and £5 to DVLA for full history of all notifiable changes on the logbook. If it was done before 1998 , the date SVA came into being , then there is a degree of safety , more so if there are mag articles, date proven photos, old MOTs etc . This should mean it losing its current reg number and being issued with a Q plate but , as they always say, " each case is considered on its merits " ...so the more info you have the better. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kinda glad I went for a 4 speed type 3 behind the zetec now  is plating over the gearstick hole and cutting a new one a tunnel mod? or cutting a hole for a clutch cable on a previously auto car? mind you, from the DVLA answers it all depends on the original. I bet you can re tunnel a morris minor without worry because the tunnel is just a piece of screwed down tin where in an escort (for example) it is welded in and has a brace that ties the crossmember and the outriggers together. Also, this info relates toa DVLA inspection only, not the MoT? ie the criteria for needing inspection in the first place hasn't changed? sorry for rambling, just thinking out loud really |
| |
To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yup, all relative to DVLA inspection should one ever be needed , supported by a relevant owners club on the V765 agreeing which bits of the motor are stock.
VOSA make a big point of changes being relative to each manufacturers as they would view what constitutes THEIR monococque differently to anothers.
No change in the criteria for inspection just clarification of what IS viewed as modifications to remove as much of the grey from the picture as possible.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All looks fairly reasonable to me. If you chop the tunnel about to get a different gearbox in, I bet as long as you do a decent job and it looks the part, i.e. decently fabricated, seam welded, painted properly etc not pop rivets and bits of angle, no-one is gonna hava a 'big book of 1950-80 passenger car trans tunnel profiles' to check you against so no problems. VOSA or whoever it is are not gonna issue a diktat saying 'no probs to chop trans tunnels up' are they, they have to give a line saying do not chop up the structure of your car.
|
| |
1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One would assume that (as escorts are mentioned) if the manufacturer has built rally versions with modified tunnels/bulkheads/diff tunnels/shock towers, you could argue your modifications are no different and must be acceptable, personally i'm not sure i'd want the fight without some backing and knowing what Ford (for example) are like about supporting old models, life could get difficult.
|
| |
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the main thing to come to the fore of my mind is to chose the right car for what you want to do or to chose the right components for your existing car .
Those later cars that have Type Approval already would have very few problems passing the BIVA test after modifications IF the test is needed.
Earlier cars may have an issue so I would tend to comsider it a full project and any changes made to be to BIVA standard regardless.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
One would assume that (as escorts are mentioned) if the manufacturer has built rally versions with modified tunnels/bulkheads/diff tunnels/shock towers, you could argue your modifications are no different and must be acceptable, personally i'm not sure i'd want the fight without some backing and knowing what Ford (for example) are like about supporting old models, life could get difficult. Genuine rally cars are normally homolagated models and low production. It is the fact that they are built , and first registered like that , which is the difference. IE You can make a 1600L Capri into a Capri 3000 GTXLR but it doesn't make it a a GTXLR in the eyes of DVLA. We are actually involved with a case referencing rally car history at the moment. We thought that the confirmation of allowing seam welding was a big step forward with rally cars |
| |
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2010 12:36:16 GMT by kapri
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Taking the Escort again as an example of an older car, what would be the usual failiure points?
The sharp edges on things like bumpers, wipers, mirrors, roof guttering?
|
| |
Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Most of those , gutter could be dealt with quite simply on the leading edges. Biggest problem with most non TA cars will be glass specs. This is something we are still working to resolve with DfT . We are attending BIVA tests and still learning re issues appearing and how to resolve these on older cars . Next week , if all goes to plan we will be attending a BIVA on a rod and a SVA on a Retroride. We attend so we can learn further, challenge / clarify where we feel something is wrong and to provide some 'moral support' to the owner |
| |
|
|
|
|
[*]
the definite answer on modifying bulkheads and transmission tunnels is good to know
. As car modifiers we need to know what we can or can't do before we start messing. I agree that DVLA have not made this information easily accesable and we are talking to them about the consequences of that.
is plating over the gearstick hole and cutting a new one a tunnel mod? or cutting a hole for a clutch cable on a previously auto car?
