slomoshun
Part of things
Going forward one nut and bolt at a time
Posts: 319
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Jan 26, 2015 21:27:59 GMT
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Some great comments on the same lines it appears people think if you drive an older retro car you are poor. In some cases I'm deemed poor but I'm always grinning when out n about in my old car. At least its paid for. I am old enough to see how a certain element in society judge everything on four wheels simply by the number plate a snobbery inherited misconception they hold on to because they are scared to be different and not be accepted. Times people have said < get a proper car > or < why do you persevere with old junk > and i just laugh and think if your shiny tin box gives you as much enjoyment why is every modern tin top owner have that bored expressionless look about them. If thats called fitting in thank goodness my retro is parked on the drive. Never knowing what might happen adds to the fun provided you got breakdown cover.
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Traction and horsepower is nearing perfection
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Jan 26, 2015 21:36:38 GMT
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72 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400. 95 BMW E34 525i Manual. 80 Lotus Elite, sold 86 Mk4 Escort RWD V8, sold
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Jan 26, 2015 21:57:56 GMT
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I drive tat out of choice and will have a squeal of excitement seeing an older car on the road, where my mates cream themselves over a white Audi S-Line with anthracite wheels. ! I'm the same. I have very little interest in modern stuff. My daily is an f reg jetta (soon to be replaced by a b reg gti). They were talking at work the other day about their modern cars and a few of them weren't too happy when it turns out it costs me the same as one of their monthly payments on their car to run mine for a whole year.
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Jan 26, 2015 22:14:34 GMT
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I have to say, the thing that surprises me the most is how older cars apparently just shouldn't be cars anymore. Older cars aren't extravagant, they aren't crazy slow or dangerous, they are just normal cars of years past. People don't realise that as long as you can use three pedals, a gearstick and a steering wheel you'll be just as fine in a 60's saloon as in an 80's coupé or a 2015 whatever.
These days I don't really feel smug at all to have older cars because I'm starting to wonder where I'm headed (no money for anything but cars gets tiring after a few years), and that's the feeling that stays in the end. It seems insane to use something the way it was meant to be used, just because most people don't use it anymore.
It's very disappointing, especially coming from people whom you love, and it gives a gloomy insight on what society has been turning into for the past few decades.
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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Jan 26, 2015 22:23:04 GMT
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I can't work new cars for the most part. If I have to travel with work, for insurance purposes I have to use a rental car, which they rent for me, no choice on my part, so last time I walked out to the car park and pressed the remote button, and what looked like an Astra flashed it's indicators.
So, first, work out where the key goes. Ah, OK, it's a starter button, press that and it must sense the key like new BMWs. Nope, that doesn't work and there's no manual...
Press it 3-4 more times, nothing, until a lad I work with who has one walks over and tells me to put my foot on the clutch like it's obvious. Why would I do that if it's out of gear? But hey, now it's running.
Another 10 minutes adjusting mirrors and seats, then drop it into gear and set off. Find the bite, handbrake... Handbrake. Where's that then?
No lever in the middle, must be like an old Merc with a handle on the dash by my right knee. Nope, now I've opened the bonnet. Get out, close the bonnet, get back in. Stare at the dash for 5 minutes. Get phone out and Google it. Ah, it's a switch on the centre console that I thought was for the bootlid. Finally moving...
Sod that.
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Jan 26, 2015 22:27:49 GMT
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If you think you get funny comments driving an old merc or a ford, you should drie a Trabant as a daliy like I do LoL.
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1955 Austin A30 1981 Jawa Mustang 1990 Trabant 601 (Tommy) 1989 Trabant 601 2009 Jaguar XF 2012 Toyota AYGO 2018 Scomadi TL
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Jan 26, 2015 22:35:12 GMT
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If you think you get funny comments driving an old merc or a ford, you should drie a Trabant as a daliy like I do LoL. Just bought one buddy, in hearing aid beige, just sorting paperwork out with dvla & it will be a daily run around for me
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Jan 26, 2015 22:52:57 GMT
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My Trabi is also in hearing aid beige, be prepared for lots of questions about if it's made of cardboard lol.
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1955 Austin A30 1981 Jawa Mustang 1990 Trabant 601 (Tommy) 1989 Trabant 601 2009 Jaguar XF 2012 Toyota AYGO 2018 Scomadi TL
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Jan 26, 2015 23:04:56 GMT
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My Trabi is also in hearing aid beige, be prepared for lots of questions about if it's made of cardboard lol. Make a change from them coming up to me when I'm in the Delorean & saying 'are these aluminium'? Lol
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fred
Posted a lot
WTF has happened to all the Vennies?
Posts: 2,957
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I can't work new cars for the most part. If I have to travel with work, for insurance purposes I have to use a rental car, which they rent for me, no choice on my part, so last time I walked out to the car park and pressed the remote button, and what looked like an Astra flashed it's indicators. So, first, work out where the key goes. Ah, OK, it's a starter button, press that and it must sense the key like new BMWs. Nope, that doesn't work and there's no manual... Press it 3-4 more times, nothing, until a lad I work with who has one walks over and tells me to put my foot on the clutch like it's obvious. Why would I do that if it's out of gear? But hey, now it's running. Another 10 minutes adjusting mirrors and seats, then drop it into gear and set off. Find the bite, handbrake... Handbrake. Where's that then? No lever in the middle, must be like an old Merc with a handle on the dash by my right knee. Nope, now I've opened the bonnet. Get out, close the bonnet, get back in. Stare at the dash for 5 minutes. Get phone out and Google it. Ah, it's a switch on the centre console that I thought was for the bootlid. Finally moving... Sod that. Have to agree here, 5 years ago had to go to a Mori Seiki CNC Machinery show, Me and my Work mate Luke was chosen to go, we was presented with a Hire Car - brand new at the time - I grabbed keys, 'Mine'!! I said, and all the above hassles started - I had a pap - and I was passenger for the week
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'79 Cossie ran Cortina - Sold
2000 Fozzer 2.0 turbo snow beast
'85 Opel Manta GSI - Sold
03 A class Mercedes
Looking for a FD Ventora - Anyone?
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I'm much the same, my friend has the slogan that when ever you buy another car it must always be better than the last. Which makes sense to a point (in terms of rust, ideally the "new to me" car should be less rusty) Though many people see better as more complicated and can do more things.
This time I decided to go backwards, back from a newer car to an old one. Why? Because it commands attention where ever it goes, something newer cars just can't do even when you've spent £60-80k on a specced up BMW M series. Even though it has no radio, no electric windows, no sat nav, no air con etc etc all things my previous car had. It gets peoples attention, but why? Because it's beautifully simple, was designed by an Italian who did many very nice super cars and has an actually nice interior. A thing that many modern cars lack is simplicity and great design. Though often when they are simple they are terrible to look at (tata nano) Not like they used to be at all.
I don't often get people ask me why I don't drive a newer car because they can see that I love my triumph when I drive it often beaming with joy, my close family and friends all know I prefer older cars from my car history so never ask when I'm going to get something new because they know I'm not. Also I don't have much fancy for the driving off the forecourt loss of money.
The reason I love my car? If something goes wrong when I'm in a carpark and someone's watching, I get out, flip up the bonnet with a screwdriver in hand, two twists and bonnet closes again I drive off. They look on in disbelief. I'd rather that than wait four hours for the RAC to turn up.
But that's what sells now isn't it, phone connectivity and all that.
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If I'm honest, and I probably won't win any new friends for this, I'm not sure everyone is honest about why they have an old car. I have been on here long enough to see some cars move from 'too new, no character' to then 5 years later appear on people's want radar as a retro choice. The car hasn't changed. The way people view that car has. Sometimes the passing of time, makes something more appealing. Most of the time I think it is just because those cars become affordable. A circa 2000 BMW or Mercedes, even 5 years ago would not get much love from the retro scene, based on being characterless, complicated etc. but now, these cars that are suddenly the same price as many car choices from the 70's or 80's, are being sought by people as a cool alternative. Some of the complaints about why new cars are rubbish could be seen as a poor adaptation to moving times. (I would say progressing times, but we know that progress is not linear, and I can accept that some newer design and engineering decisions are a compromise by the brand and marketing side). I feel that , complaints about new cars can often come across as a less than honest reaction to those cars being out of people's reach. This whole, 'modern cars don't appeal' but then a generic car from more than 10 years ago does, stance seems a little strange to me. I do not mean everyone, so please do not take offence, as I am not name calling. I guess I am saying that I would find it easier to believe some people who just say, that they choose their car because it is at the bottom of it's depreciation curve. It is an economic choice, and quite rightly, one that people make the most of. If people really believe that a family car from the 90's is in any way more characterful than a modern family car, then I am surprised. Many of the cars on here are celebrated for being something better from a better time. It is often just that they are more affordable, and therefore the choice is justified as an emotional one, where, for many, it is the only choice open to them. This lack of honesty is no worse than the bravado of those that make car choices to fit in within their peers, and play car par power games. Yes, we should celebrate how much use we can get out of something that many would have since rejected, but I feel less convinced when people shun the same car one year, but are very interested once they depreciate into view. No axe to grind, just an opinion, hope no one feels offended by it....
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I can't work new cars for the most part... I remember when my better half bought her 1-Series BMW (not a bad car but not for me!!!)... I could not start it as I didn't know the 'sequence' involved...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will ensure she is in a classic at some juncture!
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,872
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I think you have a fair point there Alolympic, to an extent. People will always defend the decisions they make, and justify them for what they think are the right reasons to their peers. On a forum dedicated to old cars then 'it's old therefore its good' is always going to be an element, in the same way than on a BMW forum it's likely that someone might buy a terrible worn out bland modern and justify it with 'at least it's a BMW not an Audi'.
I think there's another angle to the same argument though. If its a time to be honest, I've always thought the Alfa 159 is a great looking car and I'm waiting for them to get cheap enough for me to be able to afford one. Is if the fact that it's new or modern that makes it appeal to me though? no. It appeals because I like the design. It wouldn't matter how old it was, I'd like it just the same. There is though a section of society for whom the very fact that something is new makes it 'better'. that doesn't just apply to cars but to everything in their lives. Its a status symbol to them to have a brand new TV, and whatever this seasons fashion for kitchen appliances. I guess to some other people enjoying using things that are a little older is a statement to those people.
On the other hand… I got tempted my newer car recently while being annoyed with my constantly broken mx5. I looked into new(er) mx5s. No rust? brilliant! As much power as my engine conversion is making at double the fuel economy? even better! Some sound deadening so I can hear myself think on the motorway? what luxury! But then it all fall apart for me. And it just comes down to my taste here. In a sports car I don't like fly by wire throttle that all moderns have, it takes away that connection and predicability that ives me confidence when driving, the same goes for power steering. I like that, similar to my motorbikes, in my mx5 I push the break pedal till you feel the pads contact the disks and it goes firm, then I apply pressure to the pedal to slow me down. I don't enjoy the modern heavily assisted brake set-up where if you feel any firmness in the pedal then you'll be hanging in the seat belt with the ABS going wild!
It's the driving experience that's available with older cars that I want, its the design and way they can look when not defined by so many safety/economy regulations, not just the fact that they are old.
Back on topic, I haven't experienced much of the negative reactions that some of the rest of you have. What have had, which amused me, if people thinking my cars are more special valuable than they are. When I had a 90's Alfa GTV, I had a number of people make comment about how nice they were but 'oh must cost a bit to run' and such like. It was an £800 car that didn't break down once in my ownership and just needed a new pair of tyres when I came to sell it. Some of the people making these comments were in ~£10k worth of modern family hatch, probably paying £££ every month on the finance!
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slomoshun
Part of things
Going forward one nut and bolt at a time
Posts: 319
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I agree with comments above as another take on the discussion but i think if any older car as survived till 2015 it must either be as good as i thought or been well looked after. Now the likes of myself retired working class can afford 20 k at time of sale cars for between £ 500 and £ 800 plus if they are looked after offer great value for money but for me personally i just like older cars. Comments from others just add interest to the retro hobby although at times the comments reflect modern society which is frightening.
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Traction and horsepower is nearing perfection
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If I'm honest, and I probably won't win any new friends for this, I'm not sure everyone is honest about why they have an old car. I have been on here long enough to see some cars move from 'too new, no character' to then 5 years later appear on people's want radar as a retro choice... I completely agree with this... I was going to post this in another thread (well the gist of it anyway!) but when I was a youngster growing up on the 80's I was fascinated by the 'then' older cars and newer motors like Mk2 Astra's and Sierra's and Mitsubishi Galants did not do anything for me in the slightest...!!! Today I look at the cars I did not even think of as special back when they were new and I suppose it is a cyclical thing, it has to be right...?! Who knows, maybe we'll all be coveting the Ssang Yong Musso in years to come...?!?!?!
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Jan 27, 2015 10:00:40 GMT
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I work in an office full of people who lease new A4s, 3-Series, Mondeos and the like through work, and all find my old Merc hilarious. I love when they say I must be made of money because I average 25mpg and they average 40mpg. Obviously they forget the £400 that gets taken out of their wage each month for a car they'll NEVER own... Makes me smile! This could have been written by me. Everyone knows that whatever old Benz is parked outside will be mine, they are increasingly respectful of the fact that I've had these 'bangers' on the go for years and they know what I paid for them when I got them. Some guys I know would obviously like to break the cycle they're in of perpetually paying for a car and have something more interesting but they're pretty scared of having to do any work on it or it breaking down. I've loaned out W124s to various people and some of them are terrified the first time it needs a second turn of the key to start. I think we should have a Retro Rides event where we loan a Retro to a non-believer for a few days and try to convert a few people, put a bit of joy into their lives.
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Jan 27, 2015 10:02:55 GMT
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paul Y - You win - A tri-chevy as a daily! In my own case, due to a ridiculously stupid 10yr period in my life where everything got bought with credit, I am too poor to drive a newer car and I can't see it changing. Myself and the Wife's daily is a 2002 Accord as we like to have a semi modern car as we need 2 cars (Although we only use one at a time) I work in an office with people from various walks of life and I am deffo seen as more than a bit strange! When I bought my old Mk2 Granada in, I got the old Sweeney jokes, when I used my Cortina Crusader, I got the 'Elbow patch' jibes. They all know I am building a P100 now and I'm getting the traveller jokes now! That said, when I showed the office junior pictures of all 3 he loved them all! To the young whipper snapper, I am the cool 40 something yr old!!!
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Jan 27, 2015 10:10:33 GMT
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Most of my friends don't and never will understand but i actually cant cope with new cars. I've never liked them, even years before i could drive. I had a 1998 Arosa recently as an emergency stop gap and even that was too much, i lasted a month and replaced it with a series land rover. I don't suppose there's a super logical reason i can just explain, i just don't like the whole experience. They way it looks, sounds, drives, smells, etc. Why have an ugly looking plasticy car with cheap fabric everywhere when you could have great looks, wood, leather, a great noise, etc.
Driving a Series 2a, doing 15mpg everywhere and topping out at 50 bothers me far less than having to use a sensible car, and has in fact proven to me that you really can use anything every day. This is good for me because i can own anything in future now without a worry. People are obsessed with miles per gallon and how incredible it is that they can get 40+ from their fiesta. This is all relative really because they're also paying for road tax, depreciation, more pricey wear and tear and stupid bills if it breaks because they cant mend it themselves.
I've always said i'd rather spend an extra 20 quid a week on fuel and enjoy myself and risk breakdown than drive some horrendous, cheap, modern turd for the sake of 'just in case it breaks'
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Jan 27, 2015 10:12:34 GMT
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A circa 2000 BMW or Mercedes, even 5 years ago would not get much love from the retro scene, based on being characterless, complicated etc. but now, these cars that are suddenly the same price as many car choices from the 70's or 80's, are being sought by people as a cool alternative. This is very relevant, the cool alternative. There are a couple of guys I work with, not car enthusiasts by any stretch of the imagination, who are driving ten year old Beemers or Benzes because they desperately wanted to set themselves apart in some way and after buying an older, formerly prestige car they realise that they're cheaper and better (by some weird measurement that differs from person to person) than the Renault/Nissan/Ford/whatever hatchback that they nearly bought. There's a recurring series on Jalopnik based on the premise "for the price of THAT you could have bought THIS", where THAT will be a brand new Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord and THIS will be an E39 M5 or a nice 997. There is though a section of society for whom the very fact that something is new makes it 'better'. that doesn't just apply to cars but to everything in their lives. Its a status symbol to them to have a brand new TV, and whatever this seasons fashion for kitchen appliances. I was trying to explain this to an acquaintance who was trying to justify getting rid of a decent Samsung 37" TV that's four or five years old to buy a 50" no-brand one. He wanted the pleasure signals in his brain to fire and this was the way he was doing it. Our brains are fired by different signals.
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