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I think the biggest killer with 'modern' cars is going to be electrical faults when they start getting 'old' . People have always said this, and the aftermarket/enthusiasts community always find a way through any issues. When I was about seventeen or eighteen and had a (probably my first) Mini I was sent to see this old geezer who lived close by because he was an Mini/A-series expert. He had done rallying and whatnot. While I was there getting some tips, his son in law arrived in a virtually brand new car that the old geezer poured scorn on. Modern rubbish, that'll be a nightmare to fix with all those electrics in it. The car in question was a '97 Peugeot 306 diesel.
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Jan 29, 2015 11:10:24 GMT
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Totally agree. My VW T5's battery died, so the RAC jump started it for me so i could get another. Noticed then that h the speedo stopped working, fuel gauge went haywire and the ABS and ESP stopped working. What i didn't know (then) was that T5's can blow an ECU by jump sterting. An £800 lesson learnt! Wut? That shouldn't happen. </worked in the industry for a while> Standard OEM fare should happily survive "double cranking" (two batteries in series) and reversed polarity with nothing worse than a blown fuse. At least you were still able to drive it home I guess. I'm 22 and drive a 36 year old Fiesta, having spent my entire life around classics/retro cars it's just normal to me. Learning in a modern tin can was quite frankly terrible, as there's just no feeling, no feedback, and the cars are so forgiving they might as well drive for you, whereas with the Fiesta I actually know what's going on and what I have to do. I felt the same way learning to drive in a Mk5 Escort. Went on to fail my test in a then new Astra SRi and eventually clean sheet it in a borrowed Mk1 Astra. A slightly miffed instructor advised me beforehand to at least wipe off the green stuff growing on the windows before presenting it to the examiner.
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Jan 29, 2015 22:29:09 GMT
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I just don't feel comfortable in a new car, personally. Too nice for a scruffy looking nerf herder like myself i guess!
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I think the biggest killer with 'modern' cars is going to be electrical faults when they start getting 'old' . People have always said this, and the aftermarket/enthusiasts community always find a way through any issues. This ^^. In 1994, the P38 was Land Rover's first foray into computer and electronically controlled everything, and Lucas to boot. However, with a proper ODB reader, most things are within the owners grasp to sort. Consider it just another piece of kit in your toolbox. And if you have a real problem, like a locked out BECM for example that won't 'talk', then there are folks out there who can deal with it for you. For me, it'll still be rust and major mechanical failure that'll see most moderns off to the scrapper.
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2015 0:39:04 GMT by georgeb
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I prefer cars that were made up to the late 90s. Not for costs,but for the simple fact that later cars are heavy and are getting complex. 2 weeks ago I had to go on a course for work,so they rented me a Fiat 500 1.2 to do a 110 mile round trip everyday...yeah I know. It felt so heavy footed and nothing felt connected. The best way to describe it would be like driving in a computer arcade,the steering had no feel and that was before I pressed that button on the dash board to lighten it. The gear lever felt like an arcade game aswell. Above 40 mph it was a chore to get up to motorway speeds oh and it drank fuel like you would not believe. In contrast I got back into retros a few years ago after buying a very cheap and great condition austin metro,light airy and cheep on fuel and would sit with the big boys in the fast lane.
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Jan 30, 2015 10:42:22 GMT
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For me, it'll still be rust and major mechanical failure that'll see most moderns off to the scrapper. Bingo! From a technology perspective, all of these electronic systems are very logically and physically well contained and in a lot of cases what kills them is interaction with the physical world, like heat or water contamination. They don't usually run in an encrypted* state, any protection comes from obfuscation or making them for unusual connectors or pin-outs. The same tools (meter, scope, soldering iron, needle pliers) that yer Dad needed back in the 80s is basically all you need. *Even the genuinely encrypted VAG/Bentley/Bugatti ECUs are hackable these days. By any normal standard of encryption or security technology, it's a joke.
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Jan 30, 2015 14:28:51 GMT
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For me, it'll still be rust and major mechanical failure that'll see most moderns off to the scrapper. Bingo! From a technology perspective, all of these electronic systems are very logically and physically well contained and in a lot of cases what kills them is interaction with the physical world, like heat or water contamination. They don't usually run in an encrypted* state, any protection comes from obfuscation or making them for unusual connectors or pin-outs. The same tools (meter, scope, soldering iron, needle pliers) that yer Dad needed back in the 80s is basically all you need. *Even the genuinely encrypted VAG/Bentley/Bugatti ECUs are hackable these days. By any normal standard of encryption or security technology, it's a joke. I bet lots will be scrapped for DMF failure. I can't believe how much it costs for clutch and DMF.
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eternaloptimist
Posted a lot
Too many projects, not enough time or space...
Posts: 2,578
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I bet lots will be scrapped for DMF failure. I can't believe how much it costs for clutch and DMF. Plenty of SMF conversions available. The only new car I ever bought was a Grand Scenic diesel in 2004 for the OH. Nine years later it needed a couple of springs and bits for the MoT, cam belt was due, 95,000 on the clock. And pretty much every panel demonstrated what happens when you park almost entirely by ear. And the interior looked like you'd expect it to having ferried kids around the place. I killed it. Bought another with a tidy body and a blown up engine. Pulled the engine out of hers - freshened it up with a cambelt kit, precautionary replacement turbo, SMF conversion and new clutch and nailed it back in. Broke the one I had from new, all in it cost me a bit less than a grand. Still got it. Back to the topic of the thread - it's all about choice. Choose wisely and new or old you can drive an awesome car. I thoroughly enjoy explaining my G Wagen doesn't look like a footballers car, that it's a billy basic 1987 model with mechanical fuel injection that manages 14mpg......that my VW Splitty crew cab is at stock height and shiny vs slammed and ratty, that I probably won't repaint the Standard 10, and finally, yes, you can still get parts for the Saab. And no, four cars isn't three too many, it's probably ten too few, not to mention one Bedford TK light as well. And a Unimog. If only I had a bit more land/storage....
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XC70, VW split screen crew cab, Standard Ten
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Mr S
Posted a lot
10-4 Good buddy.
Posts: 2,654
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Jan 31, 2015 10:49:52 GMT
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I like whatever cars I like, whether new or old. Some I can afford, some I can't. I get the ones I can.
Simples.
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Suzuki GSXR1000 K2 BMW R1150GS BMW K1200RS Chevy K5 Blazer Chevy Suburban LT Jaguar XKR
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I bet lots will be scrapped for DMF failure. I can't believe how much it costs for clutch and DMF. Plenty of SMF conversions available. The only new car I ever bought was a Grand Scenic diesel in 2004 for the OH. Nine years later it needed a couple of springs and bits for the MoT, cam belt was due, 95,000 on the clock. And pretty much every panel demonstrated what happens when you park almost entirely by ear. And the interior looked like you'd expect it to having ferried kids around the place. I killed it. Bought another with a tidy body and a blown up engine. Pulled the engine out of hers - freshened it up with a cambelt kit, precautionary replacement turbo, SMF conversion and new clutch and nailed it back in. Broke the one I had from new, all in it cost me a bit less than a grand. Still got it. Back to the topic of the thread - it's all about choice. Choose wisely and new or old you can drive an awesome car. I thoroughly enjoy explaining my G Wagen doesn't look like a footballers car, that it's a billy basic 1987 model with mechanical fuel injection that manages 14mpg......that my VW Splitty crew cab is at stock height and shiny vs slammed and ratty, that I probably won't repaint the Standard 10, and finally, yes, you can still get parts for the Saab. And no, four cars isn't three too many, it's probably ten too few, not to mention one Bedford TK light as well. And a Unimog. If only I had a bit more land/storage.... But even then in a throwaway world most won't even get a solid flywheel. The ones that slip through will make it into the hands of enthusiasts.
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