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Jan 27, 2015 10:19:44 GMT
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I can remember when l gave up driving new stuff and how liberating it was not to have something on the drive costing me 300 quid a month and devaluing 200 quid a month, l lost thousands in new cars every year, and bought a 800 quid Xantia TD, people were l worked at the time thought l was insane because we were hourly paid and l would loose so much money because my old car (8 years old lol!!) would be constantly breaking down. Then months later my mates Celica VVT decided it was bored of having the valves in time with the pistons and grenaded the engine while he was at work l had to give him a lift for 3 weeks because it took two time to rebuild the engine and that was at Toyota he said 'who much did this cost?' 800 quid, 'it very comfortable'. Another time an agent got some of us to meet in a Little chef before we had an interview for a job and they were all there in suits and tie l was in shirt but no suit, then we left they all got into new BMW, Audi etc and looked down at me as l got into my old green Xantia, they all raced off and l arrived still 5 mins early and we all go in for the interview and are handed a form to fill in so l get out my pen, er can l borrow your pen please knobs none of them had a pen between them, oh and l got the job
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Jan 27, 2015 10:26:05 GMT
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There's a recurring series on Jalopnik based on the premise "for the price of THAT you could have bought THIS", where THAT will be a brand new Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord and THIS will be an E39 M5 or a nice 997. There is though a section of society for whom the very fact that something is new makes it 'better'. that doesn't just apply to cars but to everything in their lives. Its a status symbol to them to have a brand new TV, and whatever this seasons fashion for kitchen appliances. I was trying to explain this to an acquaintance who was trying to justify getting rid of a decent Samsung 37" TV that's four or five years old to buy a 50" no-brand one. He wanted the pleasure signals in his brain to fire and this was the way he was doing it. Our brains are fired by different signals. In the case of Jalopnik, i've always thought this, and liked it when top gear did it. You could go and buy Volkswagen up, or often spend less and get the sort of Daimler that the queen used to roll about in. Madness. As for the new is better, i don't even think thats a section of society, its the majority, at least here in Surrey. Most people in my age gap for sure just ask 'why?' but when you tell them, the answer never enters their brains. 'new is better' seems to count for everything, 'your music is curse word, why? because its old' and so forth, what a curse word reason. Infuriates me when people expect you to respect their opinion but wont accept yours as reasonable!
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Retro The One In Seventyluckyseven
@luckyseven
Club Retro Rides Member 45
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Jan 27, 2015 10:33:32 GMT
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For me anyway, the relative cheapness or otherwise of retro vs modern cars has never been a consideration. In fact, my car choices have been the opposite of the cheap option. Personally speaking, money has no real intrinsic worth to me. As long as I can have a roof over my head and the kids have shoes on their feet, I couldn't give a toss. I don't have any desire to be the richest corpse in the graveyard, and I like .... well, things... so if by some miracle I get to the end of the month and have money left, I spend it on toys. Often for the cars. If I get to the end of the month and don't have any money left, I use my credit card and buy toys. Usually for the cars. It's all about the toys. He who dies with the most toys, wins
But seriously, the amount of cash I've "wasted" on my old junkers I could have bought an RS6 quite easily. Admittedly, it would have needed saving rather than splurging at the time, but you get the idea. Both my cars have cost several times their "worth" now, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? New cars are product, and that's it. They've less soul and passion than a modern Phillishave or any other CAD-rendered unit sales device. They separate all the joy and viscerality from the driving experience. I could win the lottery tomorrow... well, OK, Saturday... and still not go and buy anything built within the last ten years. There's more to life than money, and much more to life than perceived value. Just doesn't come into it. Anyone who measures their value in terms of badge cachet or how new their pool car is really needs to take some acid and spend a night watching the stars turn. It'll do them the world of good
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Jan 27, 2015 10:35:51 GMT
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@atomicrooster - I am also in Surrey and here at my work, your class is decided upon how expensive your sky/virgin/bt bill is each month - It would appear that the higher the £, the better you are!
We have one 'Lady' in our office - 60+, live's in Rowledge on her own in a 4 bed detached house. She buy's a brand new car EVERY year, has a 2012 4 berth camper van that she uses twice a year at most, yet comes back from Sainsbury's each and every day at lunchtime telling everyone what grocery's she got from the reduced to clear section?? I just don't get it! Depreciation figures to scare anyone and yet won't buy food at normal prices! Whats THAT all about?
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2015 10:37:12 GMT by SmokeEm
96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Jan 27, 2015 10:52:44 GMT
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Anyone who measures their value in terms of badge cachet But I'm all about the badge! Benz or bust! I roll retro but it must be a Benz...
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dbdb
Part of things
Posts: 821
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Jan 27, 2015 11:03:17 GMT
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One thing which always puzzles me is that Mercedes-Benz is now seems generally shortened to 'Benz'. When did this start? They always used to be called a 'Mercedes' or a 'Merc'. But never a 'Benz'.
The same thing seems to have happened to Rolls-Royce. They always used to be called a 'Rolls', or sometimes facetiously, a 'Roller'. Now I see most people online calling them a 'Royce'. That sounds really odd.
My old Jag seems to get quite a positive reaction from people when out and about. Those people who notice it seem to like it, but wouldn't want to actually own one.
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2015 11:04:04 GMT by dbdb
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slomoshun
Part of things
Going forward one nut and bolt at a time
Posts: 319
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Jan 27, 2015 11:16:14 GMT
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Used to deliver to Wentworth every day. Good selection of exotic, modern and retro stuff albeit the classy refurbed stuff. Thats Surrey at play.
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Traction and horsepower is nearing perfection
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Retro The One In SeventyDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Jan 27, 2015 11:28:19 GMT
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One thing which always puzzles me is that Mercedes-Benz is now seems generally shortened to 'Benz'. When did this start? They always used to be called a 'Mercedes' or a 'Merc'. But never a 'Benz'. The same thing seems to have happened to Rolls-Royce. They always used to be called a 'Rolls', or sometimes facetiously, a 'Roller'. Now I see most people online calling them a 'Royce'. That sounds really odd. My old Jag seems to get quite a positive reaction from people when out and about. Those people who notice it seem to like it, but wouldn't want to actually own one. americanism. in the states a merc is a very different car.
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slomoshun
Part of things
Going forward one nut and bolt at a time
Posts: 319
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Jan 27, 2015 11:33:22 GMT
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Was fortunate to spend some time working for a airport valet parking company with the downside of all cars were modern tin. This gave me the opportunity to really evaluate if modern was any good or just advertising hype which in the main they were. Years on the only cars that stood out from that stint was a rebuilt rally spec Audi Quattro sounded fantastic and performance to match, an old 911 with whaletail and an old Bentley. Never waivered from 1967 and my first A30 and A35 through the years never owned nothing brand new except borrowing new company cars if i had to.
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Traction and horsepower is nearing perfection
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Retro The One In SeventyDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Jan 27, 2015 11:37:45 GMT
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If I'm honest, and I probably won't win any new friends for this, I'm not sure everyone is honest about why they have an old car. I have been on here long enough to see some cars move from 'too new, no character' to then 5 years later appear on people's want radar as a retro choice. The car hasn't changed. The way people view that car has. Sometimes the passing of time, makes something more appealing. Most of the time I think it is just because those cars become affordable. A circa 2000 BMW or Mercedes, even 5 years ago would not get much love from the retro scene, based on being characterless, complicated etc. but now, these cars that are suddenly the same price as many car choices from the 70's or 80's, are being sought by people as a cool alternative. Some of the complaints about why new cars are rubbish could be seen as a poor adaptation to moving times. (I would say progressing times, but we know that progress is not linear, and I can accept that some newer design and engineering decisions are a compromise by the brand and marketing side). I feel that , complaints about new cars can often come across as a less than honest reaction to those cars being out of people's reach. This whole, 'modern cars don't appeal' but then a generic car from more than 10 years ago does, stance seems a little strange to me. I do not mean everyone, so please do not take offence, as I am not name calling. I guess I am saying that I would find it easier to believe some people who just say, that they choose their car because it is at the bottom of it's depreciation curve. It is an economic choice, and quite rightly, one that people make the most of. If people really believe that a family car from the 90's is in any way more characterful than a modern family car, then I am surprised. Many of the cars on here are celebrated for being something better from a better time. It is often just that they are more affordable, and therefore the choice is justified as an emotional one, where, for many, it is the only choice open to them. This lack of honesty is no worse than the bravado of those that make car choices to fit in within their peers, and play car par power games. Yes, we should celebrate how much use we can get out of something that many would have since rejected, but I feel less convinced when people shun the same car one year, but are very interested once they depreciate into view. No axe to grind, just an opinion, hope no one feels offended by it.... nail, head. if youve been on this forum as long as i have, you see it happening again and again. people without two coppers to rub together trying to justify their new purchase as 'retro' because its 15 years old or whatever, whereas a couple of years previously they were widely dirided as bland modern cr@p. indirectly, its another result of or consumerist society that makes the majority desire the new. admitting you don't have any/much money makes you poor, or a failure. admitting you bought a car just cos its cheap makes you look cheap too, so you have to justify it some other way. theres very few people on here who truly have the choice between a £10k or £20k retro/classic car or spending the same on a new vehicle.
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Jan 27, 2015 12:15:17 GMT
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you see it happening again and again. people without two coppers to rub together trying to justify their new purchase as 'retro' because its 15 years old or whatever, whereas a couple of years previously they were widely dirided as bland modern cr@p. indirectly, its another result of or consumerist society that makes the majority desire the new. admitting you don't have any/much money makes you poor, or a failure. admitting you bought a car just cos its cheap makes you look cheap too, so you have to justify it some other way. A further strike to the nail on the head. There are examples where Retro Riding and Bangernomics are the same, or very similar, and there are examples where they're very different. I don't understand why one is less cool/more shameful than the other. You see this with the W202 C Class, I got talked out of them because they were bland and rubbish a few years ago (was it a coincidence that they were also still worth a few grand?) and into W124s (which were not quite cheap but still very good value) but now that W124 values are on the up, people are talking up W202s because they can be had for £500.
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Jan 27, 2015 14:10:15 GMT
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theres very few people on here who truly have the choice between a £10k or £20k retro/classic car or spending the same on a new vehicle. I'm not so sure thats true, i reckon there's probably more people on here who can afford a modern car, but chose not to than you think. I would also not be surprised if a lot of people on here were running a 'fleet'! If not, i happen to be one of the few who both owns, runs, and drives a modern car(s) in conjunction with the older type stuff. In 2005 my girlfriend at the time came to me and said congratulations... DAD!!! This was news i wasn't really ready for, but then came the news i REALLY wasn't ready for, you're going to need a different car! At the time i was running around in an epically cool 1981 Mitsubishi Celeste. So i said what do you mean? She said that although the Celeste is cool, i needed to think about buying something more modern. I asked her what the criteria of my new car needed to be, and she said, it needs to be as new as possible, seat four, be from a mainsteam manufacturer, like a Ford or something, and be cheap! She then told me i had about 8 months to get this vehicle! So, i jumped on the internet, and i found it! It was a brand new 2005 Mustang! I got it home and said to my wife, ok, i've got it, come and have a look. She came outside and said to me, what the heck is that?! I said new as possible (it's brand new!), seat four, be from a mainsteam manufacturer, like a Ford or something (it IS a Ford!), and be cheap! (for a brand new car it was a steal!) I've nailed it baby i exclaimed! Well, after teling her this, and telling her how cheap it was, she agreed, i had nailed it. But the cool old cars never went away, and since we've had kids if anything its got worse, and between us we have a little fleet with a vsat array of different cars, ranging from our now 9 year old Mustang, through the a Ka, a Talbot Alpine, Volvo 262c, '32 Ford Hotrod, Vauxhall Frontera, and our latest little purchase, a '68 Plymouth Barracuda. and this is only about half of them... But then i wouldn't probably label myself as a Retro Car enthusiast, just a car enthusiast. I don't buy my cars as a label, or for status, i buy what i believe is cool to me at the time. I'm the same with everything i buy, i use and old Motorola KZR phone, and whatch tv on a CRT type telly, thats only 23"... It's just how i roll lol
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slomoshun
Part of things
Going forward one nut and bolt at a time
Posts: 319
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Jan 27, 2015 14:50:51 GMT
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Same sentiment on the tv as don't need a new all singing n dancing one. I wouldnt say i was rich yet but was offered a new car but no thanks. My retro influence is dictated by over four decades of being around what were new cars then but retro now.
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Traction and horsepower is nearing perfection
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Jan 27, 2015 15:48:21 GMT
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Whilst it is true that often a lot of us buy a cheap old car because it is a cheap old car, I really enjoy the fact that most of us are just as excited about aquiring a cheap old car as an expensive car!
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67 VW Split bus 69 Beetle Cab 96 Jeep Cherokee XJ Sport
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Jan 27, 2015 17:25:37 GMT
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One thing which always puzzles me is that Mercedes-Benz is now seems generally shortened to 'Benz'. When did this start? They always used to be called a 'Mercedes' or a 'Merc'. But never a 'Benz'. The same thing seems to have happened to Rolls-Royce. They always used to be called a 'Rolls', or sometimes facetiously, a 'Roller'. Now I see most people online calling them a 'Royce'. That sounds really odd. My old Jag seems to get quite a positive reaction from people when out and about. Those people who notice it seem to like it, but wouldn't want to actually own one. americanism. in the states a merc is a very different car. Yep definitely American, used a lot in hip hop. Comes from a Lost Boyz track, 'Jeeps, Lex coupes the Beemers and the Benz'. It'll always be a Merc to me.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:47:49 GMT
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For me it's about three things: * Driving cars I'd never afford new * Childhood heroes * Image
The most I've spent on a car for myself is £2500. That either puts you in a clapped out semi modern repmobile, a people carrier with half chewed sweets stuck to the carpet and more dents than the moon or a tidy expensive looking retro.
I tend to go for 80s cars as there what I drooled about as a kid and hankered for when I passed my test in the late 80s.
As for image 'retro' in general is cool. We all like the attention our cars get, I like the double takes from other drivers, the lad sneakily filming my car in a car park and the frequent 'I had one of those' comments at petrol stations. I even had a beat up BMW compact full of local yoof stop and wave me through followed by big thumbs up all round at the sight of a tidy looking E30, and so they could hear the straight six. If I drove a 52 plate Picasso that would not happen!
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Jan 27, 2015 17:53:53 GMT
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Always had older cars, and even though I can afford a newer car, even a brand new panda, I just feel better in an older car. Its not just the zero depreciation, and the ability to fix it yourself, its the way an older car actually "feels".
Modern stuff cocoons you away from the outside world in a sea of plastic and gadgets that I don't want to be around. Having an old retro car just feels "right".
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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jpr1977
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 656
Club RR Member Number: 18
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Retro The One In Seventyjpr1977
@jpr1977
Club Retro Rides Member 18
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Jan 27, 2015 17:59:16 GMT
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smoke em. She can't possibly save money, there's never anything good in that section of 'burys, unless you like lots of Gravy... I give up trying to justify why i don't have an Audi (it'll break) to the majority of locals...
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Last Edit: Jan 27, 2015 18:00:09 GMT by jpr1977
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Jan 27, 2015 18:35:57 GMT
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PandaSelecta, I think you've nailed it right there, "its the way an older car actually "feels"." I was once treated to a ride in my mates all singing, all dancing Porsche 911 Carerra 4 which was almost new. Anyway as he blasted along on a wet bendy road I thought how is he keeping this thing on the road when he's driving like such a tw4t? Before I could ask him he started telling me about his car an how amazing it is, he spat a load of abbreviations at me. He then said the car is almost uncrashable, as no matter how bad his driving was, the car would try to sort it out for him so it all stayed on the road, and we would arrive at our destination unscathed! So I said to him that basically he was as much of a passenger as me... a comment that he didnt care for if I'm honest, but surely if the car is sorting out his inadequacies for him it didn't make him much of a driver in my book, and I told him so! This also went badly, but I told him that I would prefer to drive my old XR4i to driving his Porsche. He couldn't understand why when his Porsche is newer, faster, more capable. So I said my XR4i was better because when I drove it, it felt like I was a participant in driving, as you had to know what to do, and how to drive it to stay safe and stay on the road, especially in the wet, that think wanted to just throw you into a field or something lol. Whereas, driving his 911 I'd have felt more like a spectator, as it could sort it all out for me when I ran out of driving talent!
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Jan 27, 2015 19:04:50 GMT
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Regards the guy in the new Porsche, it would be interesting to see how they would handle a retro without the aids in the same conditions. I'm guessing a lot would slow down, a few would fly off the road.
Anyone who considers newer cars safer should consider that older cars without these aids are driven with far more respect for the vehicle's capabilities, road conditions etc. I definitely think if the gizmos are too intrusive they breed complacency. I have a mate who's had CLS Mercs, Range Rover TDV8, even an Aston DB9, and the cars are constantly trying to reign him in.
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