adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,869
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Sept 6, 2022 12:44:28 GMT
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Don't forget all those airbags that surround You in a modern car. This causes the interior being smaller than in older cars that are even smaller on the outside. Exactly, in a 90s car it's easy enough to package a steering wheel airbag and maybe a passenger airbag in a bit of otherwise dead space under the dash without causing too much external effect. But add curtain airbags and the a pillar and roof have to accommodate that, knee airbags, seat airbags etc. Ultimately it also takes a fair bit of bravery from a manufacturer to make their new car smaller than the outgoing model. New car consumers generally don't want to compromise, they want more passenger and luggage space, more safety, often more speed, but also less consumption and cost. If you make a new car that's smaller and compromised as a result, the customer will just buy from a competitor. Also clever packaging to reduce size costs money, the Toyota iQ used some pretty clever engineering to maximise space in a small footprint, yet they stopped making it as people just bought the Aygo instead. I assume mostly because it was cheaper and the car being a bit bigger didn't bother most customers. Amusing image of a tiny car in the back of a "massive" bay window camper as penance for wordy post š
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,601
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Only this morning I stood at a red light, when a Toyota Starlet P7, the version from 1984 to 89, came across.
Had not seen one for decades I guess. Before I got green a Toyota Aygo (1.generation) followed. So I got both in front of me, good for a comparison. Both cars were the smallest cars in the Toyota range in their time. Although the Aygo is even one class below, since the Yaris followed the Starlet. But the Aygo was clearly the bigger car! Photo doesn't show the actual Starlet, but I looked for a nice example to show You the P7.
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In part of an argument over a meme (yes, I am that guy) I discovered that a then-current (2022?) MINI Clubman Cooper was wider, taller and heavier than a 1968 Plymouth Fury... The Fury is longer. We are comparing a British "small" car with an American full size there.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Exhibit Z From eurogranada Big car today, vs Big car 70ās vs Small Car 10 years ago.
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2023 8:41:23 GMT by grizz
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,454
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Are their any laws covering car size, or is it sponsored by wing mirror manufacturers? Under type approval requirements, all road vehicles are generally limited to 2.55m wide (2.6m if refrigerated body), 4m tall and 12m long. In the UK we're allowed taller vehicles. Big small car vs my Rover P6...
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Just look at VW's Golf, which still does the same job; carry four people in comfort with some luggage, or five people if they don't mind being cramped.
Mk1 is 550mm shorter, 160mm narrower and over 300kg lighter which meant the 60hp provided adequate performance for the day, and is still more than good enough unless you're going long distances.
The cars got bigger over each iteration until VW(and other manufacturers) had to introduce new small car ranges.
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It's madness, a veritable arms race.
My MINI is my daily, but with all the options it was a 40 grand motor and I don't want labrador hairs all over it, so I needed a small estate but there are so few about now. A modern 206SW equivalent woukd have been perfect, but a gullible public are driving this faux SUV revolution. I ended up with a 2008 as a dog van, the most xar like small SUV I could find, but it rankles to have to pay extra for an SUV fashion statement I neither wanted or required.
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2005 Volvo C70 2.4T Convertible. 40k miles, FVSH, one prior owner. My toy. 2010 Mini JCW Convertible. Wife's toy. 1991 Yamaha FZR600, one of only 20 Kocinski edition models. MINI Cooper S Electric '3' - My daily scoot. Peugeot 2008 HDi120 - Dog van. Polestar 2 - Wife's daily. Dacia Jogger Extreme hybrid dog van replacement ordered, due Jan '24.
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Jun 23, 2023 10:07:34 GMT
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My lupo which is only a centimetre or two smaller than the newish vw up.
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Jun 23, 2023 10:13:06 GMT
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...and 170kg heavier then the mk1 golf GTi!
Nice wee scoot BTW.
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2023 10:15:33 GMT by BritBrick
2005 Volvo C70 2.4T Convertible. 40k miles, FVSH, one prior owner. My toy. 2010 Mini JCW Convertible. Wife's toy. 1991 Yamaha FZR600, one of only 20 Kocinski edition models. MINI Cooper S Electric '3' - My daily scoot. Peugeot 2008 HDi120 - Dog van. Polestar 2 - Wife's daily. Dacia Jogger Extreme hybrid dog van replacement ordered, due Jan '24.
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Jun 23, 2023 12:47:33 GMT
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Fat cars for fat people Govt's are pretty pi55ed off with car manufacturers, all the fuel consumptrion gains made in the early 2000's are now wiped out as cars are now generally more thirsty than they were 20 years ago due to size & weight. The Golf GTI is a prime example, the new one is twice the weight (literally!) of the first one, with twice the power and almost twice the engine size, but is hardly any faster. Crash protection and sound proofing are the biggest culprits for weight, and 'upsizing' in selling is the culprit for size. Problem is no-one knows how to drive bigger cars, I drive down narrower roads every day and the amount of drivers that brake every time someone comes the other way even though it's a 2 lane road - or they drive down the middle of the road as they have no idea of the car width
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,869
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Jun 23, 2023 13:05:37 GMT
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The Golf GTI is a prime example, the new one is twice the weight (literally!) of the first one, with twice the power and almost twice the engine size, but is hardly any faster. Mk1 Golf GTI, 0-60 in around 9 seconds and top speed of 113mph Mk8 Golf GTI, 0-60 in 6.4 seconds and a top speed of 155mph Not to mention the vast difference in cornering g's between the two, so while the new one may be much bigger and heavier, it's certainly much faster š
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Jun 23, 2023 13:53:31 GMT
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It's only going to get worse with EV's they are getting bigger and bigger. Many manufacturers are not even making small (actually not very small) cars anymore because they can't make them work as an electric vehicle.
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,386
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Doesn't have tobe old cars either My 2004 TVR T350 next to a Kia Soul
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Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
Previous BMW 325d E91LCI - sold Alfa Romeo GTV - sold Citroen AX GT - at the breakers Ford Puma 1.7 - sold Volvo V50 2.0d - sold MGB GT - wrecked by fire MG ZT 1.8T - sold VW E-golf Electric - sold Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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It's only going to get worse with EV's they are getting bigger and bigger. Many manufacturers are not even making small (actually not very small) cars anymore because they can't make them work as an electric vehicle. Doesn't have tobe old cars either My 2004 TVR T350 next to a Kia Soul Actually, what kevins saidā¦.. illustrated well too, with a Tesla next to the Soul. I am waiting to see where the tech and energy people go next for clean, compact, ārenewableā energy. Of course it becomes a new debate and slinging o opinions, agendas and fiscal policies as to where the taxes can best be generatedā¦ā¦ But SIZEā¦.? That will be interesting to watch unfold.
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Last Edit: Jun 24, 2023 7:49:26 GMT by grizz
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Iām the first to complain about big cars. Canāt believe this thread has passed me by and I havenāt managed to moan on it yet. I was quite surprised to see the VW UP is quite a bit shorter than my Anglia.
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Like most things the general populous have been sold the idea that 'big is better/best' and then there's the school run status and the pub car park and ... I'll get off my soapbox now and lie down for a bit
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There are a couple of other factors:
one is that when asked what they'd like their next GoFoiesMePoBia 230 GTZXRLSiT to be, the answer always includes 'a little bit bigger'
And there's a lot of stuff to go in a modern car - we won't go into how useful or necessary much of it is - and the easiest way to get it in is to make the car bigger. This is why the modern equivalents rarely have any more usable space inside them for the important components - the person that paid for it and their passengers.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jun 24, 2023 10:59:38 GMT
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I do find it ironic that in the drive to save the planet/polar bears/bees/etc. no one seems to be able to grasp that to make cars much more efficient and use less fossil fuels the quickest and easiest way is just to make them damn smaller and lighter.
A typical āfamily carā doesnāt need to weigh the wrong side of two tons and be 18 feet long. I thought the penny had almost dropped in the early 2000s when VW started offering cars like the A2 and the Lupo 3L, with an emphasis on weight saving to gain fuel economy, but the pendulum how now swung so far the other way into unnecessary SUV land itās ridiculous.
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Last Edit: Jun 24, 2023 11:04:27 GMT by Dez
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,601
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Jun 24, 2023 11:02:40 GMT
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I thought the penny had almost dropped in the early 2000s when VW started offering cars like the A2 and the Lupo 3L, ... Nothing else but greenwashing!
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Jun 24, 2023 12:13:56 GMT
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The Golf GTI is a prime example, the new one is twice the weight (literally!) of the first one, with twice the power and almost twice the engine size, but is hardly any faster. Mk1 Golf GTI, 0-60 in around 9 seconds and top speed of 113mph Mk8 Golf GTI, 0-60 in 6.4 seconds and a top speed of 155mph Not to mention the vast difference in cornering g's between the two, so while the new one may be much bigger and heavier, it's certainly much faster š I'm a bit out of date I'm afraid - I believe my comments were based on what I heard in around 2010? so maybe it was true then?
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