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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Been involved in building and restoring vintage cars for a living for years now, 7's are a real hoot esp the racers, i spent a lot of time with one identical to the one on the dragstrip in your pictures..
negatives: they are very very very small you feel less vulnerable on a motorbike, some bits are still expensive e.g. back axle rebuilds gearbox/clutch parts, and the engines are surprisingly complex for a vintage unit, you will freeze in winter if you have no roof or proper screen, and don't expect to go anywhere in one above 40mph... if you want to go faster you will need to make major revisions to the chassis and esp the brakes which are as standard are less effective than praying top Allah...
Positives: 40mph has never felt so much fun, everyone loves a vintage car and the marque club is superb, in vintage terms they are cheap and mechanical parts are easy to get(usually) also join the VSCC they are THE people to get involved with for shows and races.
musts are replacing the distributor with a VW beetle one, making sure the front geometry is correct and converting the brakes to hydraulic, the brakes are so shat as standard even the VSCC allow hydraulics for racing...
I'd recommend a vintage car to anyone who loves real cars and driving, once involved you'll probably never be normal again!
PM me if you want to know any specifics..
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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A mate had an Austin 7 Ruby. Man that thing was cool, but evil. The steering is heavy, yet vague. The lights are like candles in jam-jars. The brakes are not actually capable of actually stopping the car on a steep hill. Some hills are too steep to drive up in 1st so you have to turn around and reverse up because reverse is a lower gear than 1st...
utterly unpractical in every possible way, but HOW COOL. He daily drove it for a while until his nerves gave out.
He traded it for a 1939ish Morris 10. Much more practical, he daily drove that and it was OK. Just a bit ancient feeling, as you'd expect, but more like driving a car rather than fighting with a piece of antique farm machinery.
A neighbour races them. They have almost unlimited modification potential. But you need to know what you are doing. For example you can fit hydraulic brakes to most but in some this causes the axle to snap with the force! Ouch.
Huge number of specialists for the A7.
I'd go with a more modern prewar machine or something just postwar.
103E Popular or similar is cheap and easy to keep on the road.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,454
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I don't know ANYTHING about them at all, but I wish to say that I think you should do it I know of a girl who drives one as her daily...
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I know of a girl who drives one as her daily... You should make her your girlfriend ;D 10mpg, that is exactly the sort of stuff I want to hear. There isn't a chance in hell it would ever be a daily. That would be crazy when I have a nice wafty Volvo to get about in. But slow, absurd, vulnerable motoring is exactly what I fancy! You probably have more of an idea of what sort of prices things actually sell for? My only stipulation is that it doesn't have a roof! Alistair, that is also exactly what I like to hear. And while I understand the reasoning for looking toward postwar stuff, I think that almost defeats the object for me. This new place absolutely MUST have a garage if my mind keeps working like this! ;D
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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If originality doesn't bother you why not buy a rolling chassis (much cheapness) and hotrod it. That way you can swap out all the dodgy bits with modern retro bits without feelin' guilty about it and put yer own personal stamp on the car at the same time.
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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If originality doesn't bother you why not buy a rolling chassis (much cheapness) and hotrod it. That way you can swap out all the dodgy bits with modern retro bits without feelin' guilty about it and put yer own personal stamp on the car at the same time. There's a lot of sense in that. Seven chassis, juiced brakes...and something simple like 850cc Reliant engine/box. That way you'd retain some of the spirit of the original as well as having something insanely cool. I'd just love a go in a Seven, never mind owning one.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Sevens really do put the fun back into driving, but it can be pretty terrifying at first. They wander all over the place, have less clutch pedal travel than the free play in most other cars, don't really like stopping (early ones with uncoupled brakes are even worse!) and as has been said - 40mph is about it really. I have driven one with an SU carb and uncoupled brakes. Shifted but stopping - er, no, not really - even when using the handbrake!
Sooooo much character though. They really are an experience. Everyone should be made to drive one before they can pass their driving test.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Been involved in building and restoring vintage cars for a living for years now, 7's are a real hoot esp the racers, I spent a lot of time with one identical to the one on the dragstrip in your pictures.. negatives: they are very very very small you feel less vulnerable on a motorbike, some bits are still expensive e.g. back axle rebuilds gearbox/clutch parts, and the engines are surprisingly complex for a vintage unit, you will freeze in winter if you have no roof or proper screen, and don't expect to go anywhere in one above 40mph... if you want to go faster you will need to make major revisions to the chassis and esp the brakes which are as standard are less effective than praying top Allah... Positives: 40mph has never felt so much fun, everyone loves a vintage car and the marque club is superb, in vintage terms they are cheap and mechanical parts are easy to get(usually) also join the VSCC they are THE people to get involved with for shows and races. musts are replacing the distributor with a VW beetle one, making sure the front geometry is correct and converting the brakes to hydraulic, the brakes are so shat as standard even the VSCC allow hydraulics for racing... I'd recommend a vintage car to anyone who loves real cars and driving, once involved you'll probably never be normal again! PM me if you want to know any specifics.. OK, sorry, but PLEASE disregard this Ben. It's nonsense. The brakes are cable, and if you don't know what you're doing, they'll be poor. However if you do know what you're doing, they can be balanced in around 20 minutes and beat modern braking recommendations, as the car is so light. I've never heard of the Dizzy being replaced with a beetle one. Especially as the distributor is controlled from inside the cockpit, and I'm fairly sure the Beetle isn't... 40mph? was it seized? 55mph minimum from an early (long scuttle) Tourer, and 75+ in an Ulster. Ruby/Swallow/GE in between. Steering is precise or vague depending on preference. Wheel sizes are 15, 17, 19 and 21". Parking on the smaller ones is heavy, but steering is quick. Bigger two sizes are fairly light but not as accurate when trying to hit apexs etc. Axles and suspension are surprisingly hard-wearing. The only 'weak spot' in the drivetrain is the Fabric Coupling which is designed to be the weak spot and protect the rest. They're going to wear out every 3-4k, but don't cost much. Buy them when you see them though. If you want to go racing, get a 1930 or earlier car. That's "vintage" class in most big clubs. After that is PVT (post vintage thoroughbreds) which will put you against MG TFs, and you wont win that battle. Parts are easily sourced, and cheap. Not even relatively, in real terms they're cheap. Holmesdale Sevens is the foremost company, but there are a few others too. Also you'll find lots of people will lend/sell you spares if you join their club. Austin people stick together (an underdog thing I think!!) and will always help - even when competing. The Seven is probably the cheapest Vintage you can get. There are a couple of other options you could look at, but you won't probably find the same support for some, or style for others. MG TF, Dellow, Riley, Standard. Maintenance is easy, they have such a simple engine and it's very easy to take the front panels off. Its literally block, head, radiator, fan, belt, dynamo, ignition circuit, carb. One belt that hardly needs looking at (fan) and plugs are on top of the engine so very easy to access. The Ruby has hydraulic brakes if you fancy that, or if getting an earlier one, the Ruby head will add some compression to the earlier engine. Whatever you do, don't buy a saloon to convert into a racer - very frowned upon now and you'll liekly be kicked out of your club. Roughly, for useable cars: A Ruby should cost you £2-5k ('32 on, solid roof) A Saloon should cost £2.5-5k ('20s, fabric hood) A GE or Swallow should be £4-7k (rounded back 2 seater) An Ulster should be £8-16k (boat-tail 2 seater shape) (roughly)
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Early chummy. Long scuttle - between bonnet and windscreen tells you its early Swallow Gordon England Ulster Late Saloon (short scuttle) Last of the Box Tourers Ruby
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So, looks like the Austin bits have been covered. Some alternatives are Ford Pop, Ford Y, Morris 8 and Morris 10. I'd say the Pop is the fastest of the lot and has the best brakes because they're the biggest drums and they self compensate side to side, so need little setting up. The Ford engine definitely tunes up faster as well Just remember with all these pre-war designs they need a lot more spanner time than later classics, so be prepared to do it, keep an eye on things and most importantly HAVE A LOAD OF FUN ;D I drove a tuned Pop for 2 years as a daily and it served me well. It's possible. I think what I said at the time was it's the heater that made it possible
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Been involved in building and restoring vintage cars for a living for years now, 7's are a real hoot esp the racers, I spent a lot of time with one identical to the one on the dragstrip in your pictures.. negatives: they are very very very small you feel less vulnerable on a motorbike, some bits are still expensive e.g. back axle rebuilds gearbox/clutch parts, and the engines are surprisingly complex for a vintage unit, you will freeze in winter if you have no roof or proper screen, and don't expect to go anywhere in one above 40mph... if you want to go faster you will need to make major revisions to the chassis and esp the brakes which are as standard are less effective than praying top Allah... Positives: 40mph has never felt so much fun, everyone loves a vintage car and the marque club is superb, in vintage terms they are cheap and mechanical parts are easy to get(usually) also join the VSCC they are THE people to get involved with for shows and races. musts are replacing the distributor with a VW beetle one, making sure the front geometry is correct and converting the brakes to hydraulic, the brakes are so shat as standard even the VSCC allow hydraulics for racing... I'd recommend a vintage car to anyone who loves real cars and driving, once involved you'll probably never be normal again! PM me if you want to know any specifics.. OK, sorry, but PLEASE disregard this Ben. It's nonsense. The brakes are cable, and if you don't know what you're doing, they'll be poor. However if you do know what you're doing, they can be balanced in around 20 minutes and beat modern braking recommendations, as the car is so light. I've never heard of the Dizzy being replaced with a beetle one. Especially as the distributor is controlled from inside the cockpit, and I'm fairly sure the Beetle isn't... 40mph? was it seized? 55mph minimum from an early (long scuttle) Tourer, and 75+ in an Ulster. Ruby/Swallow/GE in between. Steering is precise or vague depending on preference. Wheel sizes are 15, 17, 19 and 21". Parking on the smaller ones is heavy, but steering is quick. Bigger two sizes are fairly light but not as accurate when trying to hit apexs etc. Axles and suspension are surprisingly hard-wearing. The only 'weak spot' in the drivetrain is the Fabric Coupling which is designed to be the weak spot and protect the rest. They're going to wear out every 3-4k, but don't cost much. Buy them when you see them though. If you want to go racing, get a 1930 or earlier car. That's "vintage" class in most big clubs. After that is PVT (post vintage thoroughbreds) which will put you against MG TFs, and you wont win that battle. Parts are easily sourced, and cheap. Not even relatively, in real terms they're cheap. Holmesdale Sevens is the foremost company, but there are a few others too. Also you'll find lots of people will lend/sell you spares if you join their club. Austin people stick together (an underdog thing I think!!) and will always help - even when competing. The Seven is probably the cheapest Vintage you can get. There are a couple of other options you could look at, but you won't probably find the same support for some, or style for others. MG TF, Dellow, Riley, Standard. Maintenance is easy, they have such a simple engine and it's very easy to take the front panels off. Its literally block, head, radiator, fan, belt, dynamo, ignition circuit, carb. One belt that hardly needs looking at (fan) and plugs are on top of the engine so very easy to access. The Ruby has hydraulic brakes if you fancy that, or if getting an earlier one, the Ruby head will add some compression to the earlier engine. Whatever you do, don't buy a saloon to convert into a racer - very frowned upon now and you'll liekly be kicked out of your club. Roughly, for useable cars: A Ruby should cost you £2-5k ('32 on, solid roof) A Saloon should cost £2.5-5k ('20s, fabric hood) A GE or Swallow should be £4-7k (rounded back 2 seater) An Ulster should be £8-16k (boat-tail 2 seater shape) (roughly) Ok you've just cited what said was nonsense without backing up any of it, I have personally converted a 7 to take a bosch distributor as the originals are hard to source and invariably worn to feck you just modify the manual advance retard to work with the new distributor it's easy if you have any more engineering experience than your average cocker spaniel, its a very common and often used mod I was recommended doing it by one of the country's leading experts on 7's when I rang him up to get a new dizzy..... 40 mph... I didn't claim was the flat out maximum speed just the maximum practical speed for using a standard early vintage car which was what the origional question was about obv more in a racer or a ulster but I very much doubt an Ulster is on the cards here... i've had a 7 racer with hydraulic brakes at over 70 mph myself (and it was very hairy) but that doesn't mean I'm going to claim they can all do that?? you say the axles are surprisingly tough which axles are you talking about there were two main ones fitted are you talking about the early pre '30 axles or the later heavier duty ones? also are you talking about the three speed boxes or the 4 speed when you cite how tough they are? If you think the brakes on a standard cable braked seven esp with a steel body are great I think your idea of 'good brakes' may be a bit out, as you are the only person I have ever heard say that, they are cr*p even for vintage car brakes and as for out braking moderns!!!! i've never heard such tripe... In what way are the engines simple? most small vintage car engines are standard all iron block and head affairs, whereas the 7 unit has a separate ally crank case and and a side valve iron block bolted to it and a separate head much more complicated than most in my opinion for example I'd far rather build a Riley 9 engine than a 7 for simplicity..... I've rebuilt many many vintage cars professionally from 7's to Riley's to Supercharged Talbot Lagos and do race support for a couple of VSCC racers as well, I don't claim to be an expert in 7's but I have driven and enjoyed quite a few and worked on/rebuilt several up to race standard, I'd like to know your credentials before you rubbish my opinion..... On another note ben there are a few companies out there that will sell you ally racer bodies almost ready to fit and there are many bodyless chassis kicking about ready to be built up into a cool racer rep every year I see a couple of good looking bare chassis projects at beaulieu and various other vintage autojumbles and it's certainly a cheap way into getting a racer style seven as they do command something of a premium if origional.. Please don't build a hotrod 7 I really cant see the point of that, it'd be neither one thing or another and probably welcome nowhere..
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Last Edit: Jan 2, 2010 21:08:35 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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chevazon
Posted a lot
1939 Chevrolet 2 door coupe, `67 `Zon estate, `87 Ragtop Cavalier, 4 x 800 Drifters,(!) 1500 Drifter
Posts: 2,259
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Why an Austin 7 ? Your initial post was wanting something from that era and open topped. I have tried to get into a 7 and couldn`t (fat bstard) so I personally would be looking for something a little bit bigger and possibly from the US. Although there are specialists out there for Brit stuff I am sure there is even more for the US based vehicle with loads of repro bits. I love the look of the Model A or B in stock form. Vauxhalls, Rovers of the same era are a bit bigger but may be a bit more scarce.
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I don't claim to be an expert in 7's but I have driven and enjoyed quite a few and worked on/rebuilt several up to race standard, I'd like to know your credentials before you rubbish my opinion..... I don't need to respond to the rest, it's all opinion really. But as you asked... Setting my clutch. I can't remember if that's the 5th, or the 6th, time I took the engine out by myself that day. With the flu. Complicated? HOW?! And then I went and tried to break it some more driving up hills. Oh and then we did a 60mile rally in it but broke the clutch and did it entirely in 1st gear. I still managed to beat the overall winner by 0.25 seconds in the first autotest in his 2.5L Riley. Don't have any pictures of that because I was too busy watching the guages. Didn't break any axles though
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Also good for sliding in the muck...
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There's a big difference between those initial impressions and long term ownership Mr Surprising. I have to say, I've driven three Sevens - from a very early Chummy to a late Ruby - and the brakes were not good by any stretch of the imagination. By good, I mean able to stop almost instantly like my 2CV. The rears are very difficult to set up as well as the mechanism tends to act on one side before the other. At least, that's what an expert in the 750 Motor Club told me.
He also told me that a lot of club members carry spare halfshafts with them on long trips. He has also driven his Seven along Route 66. Which is very cool.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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Ian, I'm not clear - but do you mean my initial impressions? The car has been in my family since August 2000, and my name on the V5 since July 2005.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Ian, I'm not clear - but do you mean my initial impressions? The car has been in my family since August 2000, and my name on the V5 since July 2005. Well that at least means you are entitled to your opinion, however misguided it may be... I think you need some more experience with other 7's and other vintage cars before you go around rubbishing other peoples opinions and citing your own seemingly quite narrow experiences as fact... None of this is encouraging ben to go vintage (though a taste of the bitching that goes on is some vintage circles might be helfull) if you can steer clear of a few certain types within the scene it's largely an extremely helpfull fun and friendly place to be, if a bit cliquey.. If I ever finish the Vintage Lagonda special I'm building i'd hope to see you out and about at a few VSCC meets when you take the plunge into vintage car ownership..
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Do you mind? The fact is you DO NOT own a 7, and have stated a large number of facts which DO NOT hold water. Your post was factually inaccurate and misleading - however much of an expert builder you purport yourself to be. You don't know me, you don't know what I've worked on, driven, or otherwise experienced. You haven't rallied or trialled a 7 in competition, and you clearly haven't worked on enough to understand their foibles very well. You challenged my knowledge, I answered with long-term competitive ownership of the car in question and you want to tell me that I'm wrong? You need to come down out of the clouds so you can see clearer - if you really knew anything about these cars, and weren't misleading Ben so much, you wouldn't have had such a long list of (inaccurate) faults to list.
Good luck Ben, and try to avoid the duff advice. Find a club, find someone friendly who HAS a Seven, and make some friends who will undoubtedly help you out.
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