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Jul 12, 2010 23:16:46 GMT
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....Like, how many variations of it are there? Is it all the same box and Ford made different bellhousings for different motors? Or will different engines fit a 'one standard' type 9 bellhousing? Basicly, I might be getting a viva with a 2.3 magnum slant 4 married to a type 9 box, and I want to know if I can use the prop shaft, the type 9, and put a better engine in, like a 2.0 pinto or a V6. Input greatly recived and thanks in advance
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Jul 12, 2010 23:17:51 GMT
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Jul 12, 2010 23:31:12 GMT
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Viva, yes you can. Just get the 4cyl or V6 bell depending on the motor you end up using.
The only odd duck of the lot is the 4x4 V6 alloy bell, which uses a 3-bolt starter rather than the usual 2-bolt V6 starter.
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
I'm just reading through that thread and there is a lot to take in. I just want to make sure I can make it work somehow. the donor car is a total basket case, but apparently it ran and got driven up and down the road earlier this year. It's a rusting hulk, and I live in a high rise with a tiny garage full of bikes, and nowhere to park unlicenced cars, so I would have to buy the car, get it back home, strip it, and scrap it all in a day - so it's a bit of an expensive gamble. I really want a pinto or V6 in the viva though! I have made a few un-wise buys recently which has taken me out of favour with the lady, so I don't know if I should just keep with the 1256 for now and be happy.
If I could find someone else who needs any viva saloon/Magnum bits then maybe we could do a co-op buy? Either way, I don't want to buy it and then find that I need a different box.
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So, with the right bell housing, could I put on a 2.0 pinto or an Essex V6? What about a 2.9i V6 from a scorpio? Would that work?
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You might need to measure the input shaft of the box, the 2.8 capri box has a longer input shaft ,different shaft bearing and better ratios. I think it is around 20mm longer than a normal one. If it is a 2.8 box, you may need to modify it to fit a 4 cylinder bellhousing to it.
Scott
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,683
Club RR Member Number: 91
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^^^^ what he said, you definately have to modd the 2.8i box to go onto a ford 4 cylinder, but it is a better box. And a 4cylinder box WILL NOT fit a V6 motor - so try to buy the engine and box together
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Jul 13, 2010 12:24:05 GMT
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Use a capri V6 box and it fits straight on the 4 cyl B/H, but you have to use the box WITHOUT the upreted layshaft bearing IE no 3 bolt cover which would of origionly been from a 2.8 capri sieeras had the uprated bearing and the 3 bolt cover ORIGIONLY so check cos by now who knows whats in what you still need to take 14 odd mm off the input shaft but it's worth the work for the better spread of ratios here's a free download artical on teh differant type 9s rapidshare.com/files/219650555/T9_artical.pdf.htmlEven after years in a ford breakers you never know whats coming out, i've seen some terrable parts swapping, like a 2.8 special with a diesel box, quite a few Xr4is with 2.3 boxes even diesel sierras with 2.8 boxes, which actually drove really nice ;D A 4 cyl box will fit a V6 with the V6 B/H but as the input shaft is shorter it'll destroy the input shaft in a short time unless you make up an extended spigot bearing to reach the input shaft, seen it done and it was fooking horrable, worked OK but looked a right bodge when appart.
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2010 12:31:21 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Jul 13, 2010 12:48:42 GMT
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I think we need a Ford gearboxes article in the wiki....
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Jul 13, 2010 12:55:52 GMT
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Except, there is some major conflicting info in both threads now. ;D
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,683
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Jul 13, 2010 13:04:11 GMT
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Well this is just getting confusing now! I didn't even know there were two types of 2.8i box, afterall the one I had from a Capri 2.8i didn't fit a 4 cylinder cos the input shaft is about 20mm too long when used with a std. 4 cylinder bellhousing (cast iron or alloy)
Sorry if this seems a silly thing to say, but I fail to see how it could be shorter on one version of the V6, when the flywheel spigot is in the same place, and the bell housing are the same ain't they? Thus for it to fit the input shaft must be longer on a V6 aplication box - or are there two (or more?) bell housing lengths floating around at well?! So much for Ford interchangability!
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Jul 13, 2010 13:07:48 GMT
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Except, there is some major conflicting info in both threads now. ;D Thats why it needs to be in the wiki... editing wars FTW, lol... Anyway, what conflict?
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Jul 13, 2010 13:11:36 GMT
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Andy, if I straightened out all the conflicts between and within the 3 threads, I'd be devoting a week of my time, mate. Which I ain't got. I'm still not "back" from Mongolia!
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jul 13, 2010 13:33:15 GMT
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Ok then, I read all 3 threads. The only major conflict seems to be over the origins of the "strong" v6 box, and the associated alloy bellhousing. My thoughts on this are that even though there are claims that some v6 granadas and xr4i models had one, I've never seen it, and I've changed a LOT of clutches Every 2.8 box that comes along is an iron bell, 2 bolt starter - only the 2.8 xr4x4 has an alloy bell and 3 bolt starter (and ford list a different part number for a 4x4 starter motor too) but as I mentioned, you can change the tailshaft to make a hybrid box instead. Bortaf's advice for t9 to crossflow is spot on It's worth mentioning that you need the larger plunging joint from a capri/cortina prop to suit the 9 as well Phoenixescort, all V6 boxes have the same length input shaft (as does the diesel, and the transit box but they also have longer spline sections) there are two distinct V6 bellhousings though, depending on if you have the 3 bolt bearing carrier on the front of the case. Another point I just remembered, if you try to fit a T9 to a cortina or granada 2.3 you will have spigot bearing problems, because the t9 has a larger end than the original 4 pot box.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Jul 13, 2010 13:38:41 GMT
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^^If that ties up all the T9 info neatly, then you "just" have about 10 more boxes to cover 30 more engines (10 of those being "Zetec" engines, a word which has no technical meaning only a marketing meaning) to make the Ford gearbox wiki complete. ;D
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com
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Jul 13, 2010 13:42:38 GMT
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Yeah, I know best not even get started on the type 3 boxes, for example! ps, when I say zetec I mean a 92-98 zeta series engine. nothing else
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Jul 13, 2010 15:21:58 GMT
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This is a clip from an article I have written by Kim Henson with the gearbox guru Brian from BGH about the type 9. It says in here about the Scorpio having the heavy duty layshft shaft cover, hence my comment in the other thread. When i spoke to Brian about my ex Caterham box, he said then it would have come from a Granada/scorpio originally. I cant comment on the Sierra V's. I have no knowledge of those The article i have is in PDF format, if anyone knows how i can post this on here easily,I will do so, as its quite interesting.
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Jul 13, 2010 18:24:05 GMT
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Ken, I haven't read that before, but it is a good example of what we are talking about! First, it states "most" 2.8 v6 boxes are heavy duty type with the 3 bolt cover, practical experience says most if not all are plain, certainly all with a cast iron bellhousing are. Next, it mentions scorpio/granada as a source of HD boxes. Most of these were autos (except the 2.8i ghia 4x4) so quite rare as a manual, and also by the time the 2.9 was fitted an MT75 was being used instead.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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Jul 13, 2010 18:32:14 GMT
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I notice the article doesnt mention the ratios for the 2.3 box either
what about the 2.5 consul / granada did that get the 'heavy duty' box?
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2010 18:33:10 GMT by Autofive
Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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IDY
Part of things
Posts: 893
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Jul 13, 2010 18:36:24 GMT
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and also by the time the 2.9 was fitted an MT75 was being used instead. I have vague memories of being told/reading that there was a short run of early 2.9s fitted with the Type 9 due to a parts shortage knowing my memory it will have been early MT75s fitted to 2.8s ;D
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2010 18:39:11 GMT by IDY
I will get round to finishing it at some point
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